British GP 2010 - Silverstone

[andrew]

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 23634.html

I think this link (posted by WB above) says a lot and kills any further discussion for the time being. That's what I mean by a load of fuss over nothing.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Hahahahaha


"unnamed engineer".

Yup that'll be newsworthy!

[andrew]

Would you want to be named if you were the engineer. Probably not the best career move.

[Giblet]

It's hard to ignore a forum that has become clogged with the 'discussion' of about 5 users in almost every thread.

Not impossible, but increasingly difficult to enjoy this place with the constant bickering over minute details.

Let there be no mistake, it's just bickering, as it never resolves anything.

[andrew]

I would call it discussion/debate over a relevant issue.

[Richard]

+1 Giblet

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

It's hard to ignore a forum that has become clogged with the 'discussion' of about 5 users in almost every thread.

Not impossible, but increasingly difficult to enjoy this place with the constant bickering over minute details.

Let there be no mistake, it's just bickering, as it never resolves anything.

Debate is healthy, I dont see how 2 pages being used on a thread that ended its otherwise informative life expectancy is harmful.
I think the opposite, it should be done more often as it leads to more informed opinion. Just today I learned somthing from Myurr.

Has it descended into farce? No
Are valid points being made? Yes

Excuse me for saying so giblet, as I do read alot of what you post, and also respect your opinion. But it does appear that maybe you are lording it over a bit?
No offence is intended, just how its coming across to myself.

[andrew]

JET - +1

But no point getting bogged down in a heap of mire I suppose. You know my stance and I know yours. Be as wll draw it to a close before it is one of the moderators that intervenes.

[mx_tifoso]

It's hard to ignore a forum that has become clogged with the 'discussion' of about 5 users in almost every thread.

Not impossible, but increasingly difficult to enjoy this place with the constant bickering over minute details.

Let there be no mistake, it's just bickering, as it never resolves anything.

+ 2.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What pray tell, be the point of an online forum if disagreement is not condoned?
If it is and done within the letter of the rules(as it has), is there now a law on how to orchestrate a debate? ie frequency, topic and opinion?

Seems perhaps the old boys get to decide what the newbies get to debate about?
Have we "destroyed" a thread who's very subject matter we are debating?
Let alone that its a "dead" thread.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I feel I'm reasonable on the issue of being corrected.

[feynman]

But it is pretty tedious, dull and banal stuff though, you gotta admit.

It is the same internet bickering I can find on any internet forum, in the exact same tone of voice and exact same form of words, just with different F1 nouns, frankly, the same played-out rehearsal of anonymous bruised egos.
No-one can use any of it to gain, it doesn't interest, advantage or help anyone outside the squabblers that think they somehow now have an audience, and can't be seen to back down.

My suggestion, my modest proposal, 'Feynman's Rule': on any topic of discussion, it says that all argument should be rationed to two posts each, you get one post to make your point, so you better make it a good one, make sure it says what you mean, but also remember that brevity is the soul of wit, and sometimes less is more. And then later you get one more post on the topic to come back with a response to any rebuttal you may have received.
So if two people want to lock horns, it is over and done with in four posts.

Hey, it doesn't have to be on all threads, although I think it just good practise, but definitely if it looks like a thread is heading south, someone, anyone, can interject and claim 'Feynman's Rule' is now in operation.

Hey, just imagine how snappy, smart and interesting the internet could be. Everyone would need to be on their top game, no time to waste on screeching ad-hominem, silly traps, and straw-men; you would need to carefully deploy just your best stuff.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

But it is pretty tedious, dull and banal stuff though, you gotta admit.

Feynman,

I feel that you could say that of any of the last 30 threads apart from a couple.
There is nothing that is particularly endemic to this thread in terms of posters behaviour. It's a polymic problem that's been raised on a thread that should really have no particular interest to anyone apart from those who have yet make their minds up on the incidents.

Registering distaste is one thing, but when its registered in an elitist fashion it presents a few problems for mere mortals such as myself.

The front wing was worth a tenth maybe more. Over 50 laps thats 5 seconds, maybe more.
The difference between winning and losing. So yea...it matters.

And yes, Schumacher had gold plated contracts that insisted on no1 treatment.
So he would have been apoplectic with anger at the thought of a teammate getting superior equipment without shadow of a doubt.

Maybe not at 41, but certainly at Ferrari.

And Vettel has nothing to add. He was the favoured driver! Is he going to moan about that? Of course not......that I have to outline the situation is perplexing.

Was there anything untoward here? As this was the last post before someones distaste was registered.

[andrew]

Johnson, just leave it - no point in getting into a crash.net style discussion. A moderator (mx_tifosi) has made their opinion clear so best to take that on-board.

[Giblet]

Now we're arguing about arguing, and the relative merits of it.

The problem is nobody is actually doing anything _wrong_, but few are stepping up and doing anything _right_.

It's turned into a oneupmanship contest, by a very small number of users, who's posting frequency far outweighs their actual contribution to the site.

It's just loud opinions, which unfortunately, everyone thinks they have the right to share

I think this place is a privilege, not a right, and I wish everyone else would think the same way. Well, except Tomba. He can run the halls nude for all I care, this is his house.

Good post Feynman. While many think they are debating, a debate is NOT an argument, it is an exchange of points to prove an stance, and getting loud will not win a debate, but it will escalate an argument. People usually prepare for a debate, which is very focussed. I try to imagine a debate where a side grabs hold of a small tangent, then that becomes the focus of the debate. It would be like this forum is becoming, a shambles.

Like the Silverstone race, sleeping dogs are now lying. There is nothing to discuss about the Red Bull wing in this thread that has not yet been covered.

Rant over, and you will not see anymore from me about this.

[aral]

Now we're arguing about arguing, and the relative merits of it.

It's turned into a oneupmanship contest, by a very small number of users, who's posting frequency far outweighs their actual contribution to the site.


Like the Silverstone race, sleeping dogs are now lying. There is nothing to discuss about the Red Bull wing in this thread that has not yet been covered.

.

1st point. I fully agree. The forum has become the property of two particular posters. Shame.

Point 2. Interesting input by a reporter from Finland, about the front wing on the Bull. Webber did not like the wing, and only started to make an issue after it was changed to Vettels car. A hint of jealousy maybe?