Belgian GP 2010 - Spa Francorchamps

[marcush.]

surely that is true ÓVERtaking....

vettel will fume..

[xpensive]

Don't give the brat any ideas now ESP...?

[ESPImperium]

I think Webber *almost* beat him to that one earlier this year on Kovvy!!!

[mx_tifoso]

Axis of Oversteer: Necessary Accident?

Vettel was punished for "Causing an unecessary accident" , I imagine the race stewards, which included Nigel Mansell again, must have come to the conclusion that Barrichello slamming into Alonso was a "Necessary accident"?

Indeed, Barrichello was out of the race but certainly the FIA is known to give penalties to be served in future races, witness Schumacher. Perhaps these penalties depend on who is being hit and who is doing the hitting.

No question about it, Vettel made a driving mistake but looking at the long onboard replay, it does not look as close as it does from trackside shots. It was an unforced error but were the stewards correct in inflicting the drive through?

The perennial problem with Formula 1, the inconsistent application of penalties. Let's review a few notable incidents this season, I'm sure I forgot a few, but can we find a pattern?

- Webber hit Hamilton in Melbourne; no penalty
- Hamilton released in the path of Vettel in China: no penalty
- Button went unnecessarily slow behind the SC in China - no sanction.
- Barrichello tosses his steering wheel in the path of other cars in Monaco; no sanction
- Schumacher safety car move in Monaco; 20second penalty
- Schumacher vs Barrichello in Hungary : 10 grid spot penalty
- Vettel let too much space in Hungary behind the SC: Drive through
- Kubica hit Sutil in the pits at Hungary - 10 second penalty.
- Trulli hit Di Grassi under yellow in qualifying Spa; No penalty
- Vettel lost control of hit car and hit someone; DT-penalty
- Barrichello brakes too late and hit Alonso; No Penalty

The key is in the inconsistency with penalties. If Vettel got one Barrichello deserves one just as well if not more since he just drove straight into Alonso. It should have been that both get one or neither do. A possible penalty for Barrichello since he was out of the race could've been a drive through anytime during the Italian GP.

[marcush.]

+1
Schumacher seems to be the one the stewards have taken objection to ..maybe a sideeffect of having ex collegues with open accounts having a say in the judgement there..
But it is really striking what was more dangerous :MS vsRuby or Vettel/Hamilton pitlane tussle,or Kunbica unsafe release ....to me all these were equal in terms of
putting others at risk deliberately and should have scored the same severe punishment.
the drivethrough for colliding with an opponent trying to overtake is ok....the difference to Barrichello hitting Alonso is :Ruby was not trying to overtake there..he just ran out of talent...

[WhiteBlue]

I totally agree and I could add the Vettel/Liuzzi incident which was also avoidable by Liuzzi and the unsafe release of Alonso's car into the path of Vettel in Spa by Ferrari. All these incidents show the inconsistency of punishment. It seems to become a habit that German drivers receive punishments where others go unpunished.

[andartop]

=D>

I was thinking the same thing with mx_tifosi. The irony is that everybody else managed to keep away from each other on that corner, and "the most experienced driver on the grid" completely lost it, apparently long before the corner.. So the stewards should either recognize there were treacherous conditions on that specific corner and therefore not punish Vettel, or punish both. A 10-place grid penalty seems suitable for Rubens.

It's also very funny to see people's reactions and opinions changing depending on who's involved in an incident. For example, imagine Trulli and Hamilton in Button's and Vettel's place, or Hamilton and Vettel in Alonso's and Rubens' place!!!

[marcush.]

I´m all for it to dish out penalties when obviously the driver was not respecting the rules of conduct..be it german or brasil or whatever.
But what we see here is a mud of personal or just getting carried away by more interesting things (Barrichello Monaco!that would have earned him easily a 10spot penalty,he actually compromised a competitor and put him at severe risk throwing the wheel..and Schumacher got the penalty....a clear example for the stewards not judging
equal but suiting their personal satisfaction.

[WhiteBlue]

I have not been impressed by neither Hill's nor Mansell's performance in that regard. [...] in their role as driver advisors it must have been obvious to them how important the consistent use of penalties is for the fans and the active drivers.

[ringo]

I think the penalties are based on the severity of the accident and repeat offences.
Vettel was not penalised for crashing into webber in turkey.
Vettel was not penalized for pit lane brawl with Hamilton
Vettel not penalized for running Hamilton and Webber off track in China.
Vettel not penalized for ramming move on Sutil in Silverstone.

However no one was sent out of the race in these 4 incidents. Similar to Rubens and Alonso. See how lucky Vettel is and how easy the stewards are on him?

In the case of Button, Vettel ended his race. So a penalty was appropriate, especially looking back on previous events. Had both been able to continue, I doubt Vettel would be penalized.

You can't just end someone's race by smashing into them becuase you can't overtake them. It may not be intentional, but looking back on silverstone, turkey, vettel seems to be a serial smasher.
It would be unfair for Button if the Serial Smasher just waltzed into the pit lane and changed wings, and then be on his merry way.

Penalties this year, are usually weighted to the crime, and Vettel deserved what he got.

[myurr]

I´m all for it to dish out penalties when obviously the driver was not respecting the rules of conduct..be it german or brasil or whatever.
But what we see here is a mud of personal or just getting carried away by more interesting things (Barrichello Monaco!that would have earned him easily a 10spot penalty,he actually compromised a competitor and put him at severe risk throwing the wheel..and Schumacher got the penalty....a clear example for the stewards not judging
equal but suiting their personal satisfaction.

I'm going to defend Barrichello in Monaco. The most important thing to remember was that he was sat in the car facing the wrong way just after a blind turn. Had a car come round that corner and hit him there was every possibility that it would rise up over the front of his car and hit his head, so he was in a very dangerous position. There was also a video on the internet showing his situation from another angle and it was very very clear that he didn't throw the steering wheel away, he dropped it by the side of his car and it had a very unfortunate bounce that made it go across the track. His intention was clearly to drop the steering wheel out of the way so that he could get out of the car as quickly as possible and get to safety.

Schumacher's penalty in Monaco was harsh and I feel unnecessary, but Hill wasn't the only steward on duty. That was the penalty decided upon by the whole panel in accordance with their view of the rules.

In Spa, as at most races this season, I felt the stewards did a good job. They're handing out just enough penalties to keep the drivers honest whilst remaining light enough in the touch to let the drivers actually race. Vettel thoroughly deserved his penalty, he may have been a passenger by the time of the actual impact but his actions led up to that moment. He ran far too close to Button going for a gap that wasn't there instead of trying a move around the outside. He changed his mind far too late and made too abrupt a move directly causing him to lose control. That impact was his fault, took a competitor completely out of the race, and thus the penalty was thoroughly deserved.

[myurr]

I have not been impressed by neither Hill's nor Mansell's performance in that regard. They are both English and in their role as driver advisors it must have been obvious to them how important the consistent use of penalties is for the fans and the active drivers.

Well you do have a habit of defending German drivers regardless of how severe or visible their misdemeanor. I think the stewards have done a far far better job this year than they have in the past.

The only one I think they got really wrong was Schumacher's penalty in Monaco. Otherwise they've done pretty well.

[marcush.]

really it was :engine shut down and throwing of the steering wheel ...in frustration in my view not fear or whatever...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq9ohCVv ... r_embedded#!

but ok we have different views on this and i feel its not worth dwelling on it longer

[mx_tifoso]

New pole on homepage for Barrichello/Alonso accident...

[myurr]

really it was :engine shut down and throwing of the steering wheel ...in frustration in my view not fear or whatever...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq9ohCVv ... r_embedded#!

but ok we have different views on this and i feel its not worth dwelling on it longer

Yeah when watching it again I can see it both ways. It was definitely an unlucky bounce that made it look worse than it was, but equally he might have done so out of frustration. If he did it again I'd support a penalty but agree with the stewards that it wasn't necessary this time.