Japanese GP 2010 - Suzuka

[andartop]

What a load of horse sh1t.

Yes the cars are not designed for this much water but so what.

If it takes you 4 minutes to do a lap it takes you 4 minutes.

If you come off you were going too fast and the person whio did a lap did a better job.

If the race is only 15 laps due to the 2hr rule then is a 15 lap race.

If you come off your going too fast for the conditions, end of.

A little bit of rain spices things up.
A lot of rain usually leads to a lottery result.
That much rain however is just too much. Aquaplaning is not racing. F1 cars worth millions of dollars being wasted and lives put at risk is nobody's idea of sport.

[Mr Alcatraz]

...

[zgred]

[747heavy]

I agree partly, but I would like to make a difference between a race where people started with cars setup for dry conditions and it starts to rain very heavy, and a situation where the teams have time to set up there cars for the known condition.

in the first case, I agree that it is sensible to red flag/stop the race on safety grounds.
On the other hand, it is a bit of a shame, that the "best drivers" in the world, with the best engineers/teams at the pinacle of motor racing are not able to set up there cars for rain.
Aquaplaning of the tires is a function of speed, so go slower and it will be o.k. - just as you do with your road car.
Hydroplaning of the underbody (the biggest problem in F1 or sportscars) is a function of ride height choosen. If you un the cars high enough, it wont be a problem, this should be achievable in the later case.
With the parc ferme rules, it would make for an interesting race if it is dry, and you run with cars which are very high and therefore your aerodynamic setup is way off.
It would go some way to show, who is a good driver and who can adapt quickly to a given situation.
Running in the rain, does not kill or endanger people by default.
It´s a bit of a pitty, IMO, that the best drivers/teams have turned into a bunch of whingers in many respects. "the track is too bumpy, the track is too wet blah blah blah.... I was always under the impression, the goal is to make the most/best of a given situation, not wait and complain until the situation changes in your favour.
I guess, such are the times....

[ParanoiD]

let me ad the few pictures of people playing boat during the rain

[wesley123]

That is a stupid rule, it used to be divided on WDC order like very other serious racing series on the planet - even the red-necks with their stock cars use Championship order to determine grids when qually is rained out!

You can hardly start 777th can you as that is what some cars have as number. Anyway they should throu the grid around, so the HRT would be on pole lol, then we might see another Japanese grand prix of 2005

[ecapox]

Lets not let our being upset that there was no qualifying to watch determine how we feel about rules. For safety, they decided to put it to Sunday morning. If Sunday morning is as bad, then they will revert to a rule that has been used once, twice?

[ringo]

hamilton 5 grid spot penalty!
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 11368.html

oh well i hope Button gets on pole, that would put Lewis beside Alonso right?
If we follow the wdc order.

[raymondu999]

Huh? IF we follow WDC order, and only IF, Then Alonso would go 2nd on the grid, and Lewis would go 8th on the grid.

[lebesset]

don't 2 + 5 = 7 anymore ?

[Giblet]

I agree partly, but I would like to make a difference between a race where people started with cars setup for dry conditions and it starts to rain very heavy, and a situation where the teams have time to set up there cars for the known condition.

in the first case, I agree that it is sensible to red flag/stop the race on safety grounds.
On the other hand, it is a bit of a shame, that the "best drivers" in the world, with the best engineers/teams at the pinacle of motor racing are not able to set up there cars for rain.
Aquaplaning of the tires is a function of speed, so go slower and it will be o.k. - just as you do with your road car.
Hydroplaning of the underbody (the biggest problem in F1 or sportscars) is a function of ride height choosen. If you un the cars high enough, it wont be a problem, this should be achievable in the later case.
With the parc ferme rules, it would make for an interesting race if it is dry, and you run with cars which are very high and therefore your aerodynamic setup is way off.
It would go some way to show, who is a good driver and who can adapt quickly to a given situation.
Running in the rain, does not kill or endanger people by default.
It´s a bit of a pitty, IMO, that the best drivers/teams have turned into a bunch of whingers in many respects. "the track is too bumpy, the track is too wet blah blah blah.... I was always under the impression, the goal is to make the most/best of a given situation, not wait and complain until the situation changes in your favour.
I guess, such are the times....

I find all this talk about running in monsoon conditions ridiculous. The drivers can't even bloody see what is happening in these conditions when they are not behind another car. If they are behind another what can they do, use ESP or the force to guess what is happening?

Even if you disregard all the problems with super light cars and no downforce at the speeds they would have to go, the drivers need to see what is going on.

[747heavy]

I take your point about visability on board. Never the less, that is what they got paid for to do. The rally guys run in fog, that they can´t even see the end of there bonnet, and still somehow manage to get the job done.
But, I´m fine with your opinion, and there is nothing wrong with it.
So if it rains like this on Sunday, we won´t have a race, it´s o.k. with me.
Just thought, that the best drivers in the world could/should do it.
But it´s just my opinion and I´m fine with others who have a different point of view.

[Giblet]

I get what you mean it's a shame that they can't race or that the cars were never meant for it.

Maybe if they could slap on some windscreens with wipers, and IR camera and screen. and narrow tires that could cut through the water, we may have a race. I don't want to not see a Japanese GP, but I also don't want to see a circus

Rally drivers do have the luxury of a co-driver, and a windscreen though. They also have some pretty serious lights on the front and don't have to worry about passing other cars.

Maybe FOM should look at scheduling outside of rainy seasons in the Orient.

[DaveKillens]

36) THE GRID
36.1 At the end of qualifying practice the times achieved by each driver will be officially published.
36.2 a) The grid will be drawn up as follows :
i) The last eight positions will be occupied by the cars eliminated during Q1, the fastest in 19th position.
ii) The next eight positions will be occupied by the cars eliminated during Q2, the fastest in 11th position.
iii) The top ten positions will be occupied by the cars which took part in Q3, the fastest from the position on the grid which was the pole position in the previous year or, on a new circuit, has been designated as such by the FIA safety delegate. If two or more drivers set identical times during Q1, Q2 or Q3 priority will be given to the one who set it first.
If less than 26 cars are entered in the Championship appropriate amendments will be made to the above in accordance with Article 33.1.
b) If more than one driver fails to set a time during Q1, Q2 or Q3 they will be arranged in the following order :
i) any driver who attempted to set a qualifying time by starting a flying lap ;
ii) any driver who failed to start a flying lap ;
iii) any driver who failed to leave the pits during the period.
c) Once the grid has been established in accordance with a) and b) above, grid position penalties will be applied to the drivers in question in the order the offences were committed. If more than one driver incurs a penalty under Article 28.4a) or Article 28.6a) preference will be given to the driver whose team first informed the technical delegate that an engine or gearbox change will be carried out.
d) Any driver who incurs a penalty under Article 28.4(a) will take precedence over any driver whose qualifying times have been deleted for any reason. If more than one driver falls into a single category in b) or d) above they will be arranged on the grid in numerical order.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 6-2010.pdf

As fans, we're all driven by our own personal perceptions of how the world is supposed to work. Personally, I lean towards the concept that drivers should be able to overcome any obstacle, and that the paying fans deserve a good show. But I also realize these cars are optimized for basically just one scenario, and deviating from that environment, especially in the case of heavy rain and standing water, puts up obstacles that the cars in reality can't handle. With the low ride height, flat bottom, low weight and wide tires, any kind of water depth can turn the car into a boat. So it's a tough call, but in the end, safety overides a tie, and for me, I can live with it.

Getting back to the topic of the starting order in case Q is rained out, there were two cars that did turn in laps during Q1, and I do wonder if they are eligible under 36.2 b) i)

[FrukostScones]

weathercam Suzuka:

http://webcam.wni.co.jp/MTK08875/loop.html