Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[Blackout]

seg
Renault -on their way out already so really only feedback into the engine side

Into the Engine, transmissions, KERS, CFD and maybe in other areas... (for 2011 atleast)

[marcush.]

lets say propulsion unit..
cfd is state of the art in current f1 teams i doubt oems have bigger capacities.(I know they use university hardware..

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Well, Mercedes are not going to run a Formula 1 team and certainly not win on the cheap. I find that ironic since this was painted as such a fantastic deal for Mercedes and Brawn.

Again with the predictions. We know how your last one turned out!
120 odd million budget for the year isnt cheap, its 30 million off what Mclaren spend.
Should Mercedes spend it just because they have it?

Secondly, now that McLarens' Mercedes cash has dried up, where are they getting the 80 million Mercedes pumped into them each year? Rich backers?
Well that doesnt last forever, especially when you getting beat by Red Bulls.

My prediction is that for the money Mercedes invested, they will get a good return on 2011.

[xpensive]

If we try this from another angle, let's say that we will learn from the first couple of races next year that the W02 is not going to be the winner hoped for, who will be the first to jump ship, MS, NH, RB, or even Daimler themselves?

They won't all sit down in the boat for another season like 2010, of that I'm certain.

[Morteza]

If we try this from another angle, let's say that we will learn from the first couple of races next year that the W02 is not going to be the winner hoped for, who will be the first to jump ship, MS, NH, RB, or even Daimler themselves?

They won't all sit down in the boat for another season like 2010, of that I'm certain.

Of course Daimler will not tolerate another 2010. It's 2011 about which we are uncertain.

[marcush.]

my prediction is,if Michael is crap:
1.Michael
2.Ross
3.Norbert
4.Daimler

if the car is crap(and schu is keeping nico in check)

1Ross
2Norbert
3Daimler
4Schumacher

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The problem for "jumping ship" for any of the people mentioned is money.

Daimler will not want to sell for anything less than what was paid. And lets face it, Brawn will not be easy to get rid of with his 25% stake in Mercedes GP. So any idea of him leaving will be met with an uneasy share holders meeting

Haug? C'mon guys scraping the barrel there. The guy is predominantly Media based. He has nothing to do with a bad car being made as much as Ron Dennis has at McLaren. If he makes a media guff then fair enough, but you all underestimate Haug's negotiating ability.

It was more to him than anything else that Mclaren was ushered out with not much noise. That Mercedes werent hammered by contractual obligations to Mclaren etc etc.

Schumacher? The guy showed he can still dice. Why is their all this furore surrounding him? He is no god, he himself said today that he isnt the greatest.
At the end of the day he brings attention(and money) to the team.
Maybe we should just wait and see what the old man can do in a decent package next year.

The signs for me look promising, but I wont tempt fate.

[marcush.]

Ross is owning a bit of the team ,but thats in the interest of daimler.If he is facing the axe as principal...tha t has not much to do with his ownership.
Norbert is most vulnerable though but he is poilitically seasoned...he has friends galore in the mercedes board so he will not be early scapegoat.

But hey ..who said the W02 was going to be crap anyways ? one swede and seg ..

[xpensive]

Xcuse me, but the only one who has used the xpression "crap" in the context is actually yourself marcush...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Factually speaking, Mercedes GP will start with a very tiny advantage in terms of powertrain and KERS. The same as Mclaren I believe and FI.

We then have the not insubstantial matter of Pirelli developing a new tyre. More than any rule change or Aero tweak, this will be the area where F1 is won or lost in 2011 IMO.

He who can use the tyre best will be most likely to win, but to make it less of a lottery they have starting weight distribution imposed on them.
The creative side will be how much ballast can be moved while racing(is it legal?) as this mass transfer will have a big impact on how the tyres perform.

Mercedes GP have given not much away as to the restructure in their tyre department, but there where some changes. And a top michelin engineer was hired in June of this year, the teams tyre worries subsided with each race, although to be fair not totally eradicated. So there is a plan of action underway at Mercedes, with Brawn at the helm. By assuming they will fail is pretty unfair given how they managed to look more competitive toward the end of the year with homologation rules.

Like I said before, they probably wont be trail blazers, but they will be better, of that im pretty certain.

[Richard]

JET - They are not allowed to move mass, ballast has to be fixed. The fuel tank is in a prescribed location. Perhaps they could move coolant, but that would probably have impractical implications on packaging for negilible benefit when you consider the much bigger forces at play with the aero.

Once the car starts moving the aero forces will make a mockery of the static weight distribution rule. Fortunately the weight distribution rule only applies for 2011, probably to save face for Mercedes.

What I find frustrating is that F1 is supposed to be about innovation. Some innovations work and others fail. All that is achieved by the limited weight distribution is saving face for anyone who might get it wrong. What next? Prescribed gear ratios to save embarrassment for anyone who might get it wrong?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Thank you Richard, I was unsure as to what they could play around with in terms of ballast.
From what I have so far regards the weight distribution, it's not as big a change for the reasons you clearly made. Once the cars is in motion...its more about the aero.

[Richard]

JET - have a read of the link below for more about the history of ballast. As well as technical interest, it also shines a light on the politics in the FIA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell_Racing#1980s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FISA%E2%80 ... led_Brakes

[747heavy]

Thank you Richard, I was unsure as to what they could play around with in terms of ballast.
From what I have so far regards the weight distribution, it's not as big a change for the reasons you clearly made. Once the cars is in motion...its more about the aero.

That´s only half the story - IMHO
while the vertical load contribution of a static weight distribution (mass) is perhaps little compared to the aero downforce (maybe 1:3 - 1:4), what about lateral acceleration?

Aero downforce has no "mass" but weight does.
But our tires need to counteract the force not only vertical, they have to support the car lateral as well (sideforce/lateral grip).

Imagine a theoretical car which has 200kg weight on the front axle and 450 kg weight on the rea axle.
The car has front downforce of 300kgf (2943N) and rear downforce of 50 kgf (490,5N) @ 150km/h.

What happens to this car when it corners with 150km/h?
The tires on both axles see a vertical load of 500 kgf (4905N) combination of weight+downforce@150 km/h.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Fair play to Tyrell! Lead shot to weigh the cars down in the final stages of the race.... =D>