Track factors in choosing downforce levels?

saiyu · Post 11 Mar 2006, 22:27

I was flicking through my guide to F1 2006 book from The Guardian, and while reading through the track sections that include info on how they set up the cars for each track by Pat Symmonds, I was confused on how they came up with what levels of downforce to use. Tracks like Monza are no-brainers, since they have lots of long straights, but I'm confused at some of the choices like having high downforce for silverstone and shanghai when they look like opposite types of tracks to me.

So what track layouts generally warrant high downforce levels - lots of high speed corners, or lots of low speed corners (leaving straights out of the equation), since originally I thought high speed corners = require higher higher downforce, but then I see high downforce is needed for the slow, low cornering speed corner circuits?

Also, in a totally off topic question: what is positive toe = toe out or toe in - I can't find a definite answer on the net and I really want to use the right settings in TOCA 3

Thanks for the help

Tom · Post 11 Mar 2006, 22:59

I haven't read the paper but I reakon that the speed generated by the low downforce creates downforce in the faster corners.

Like on the American super ovals (Indianapolis for example) if a driver complains about lack of grip a smart engineer will often remove downforce, and therefore drag, increasing topspeed and providing more downforce. Its so complicated and yet so simple.

Regards Race Driver 3, on the original I could alter anything and the only difference in speed and handling I got was with the gears.
However I've heard that F1 cars have negative or zero camber.

zac510 · Post 12 Mar 2006, 01:53

I've read that little book. Basically what Symonds is saying is that tracks like China (and most tracks for that matter) are a compromise between low and high downforce. If they went with a low downforce setup, the car may be 0.4 seconds slower in the first sector, but 0.2 seconds faster in the final sector. If they went with a high downforce, the car might be 0.2 seconds faster in the first sector but 0.2 seconds slower in the final sector, so overall the high downforce setup is 0.2 seconds faster over 1 lap. It's not much, but it adds up.

saiyu · Post 12 Mar 2006, 02:08

Ahhhhh thanks for the replies. So the only times downforce is a bad thing is on straights, since its beneficial in both slow and fast corners alike?

zac510 · Post 12 Mar 2006, 02:20

Basically, yes!

Scuderia_Russ · Post 12 Mar 2006, 12:08

Toe in is when the front of your wheels point inwards, toe out opposite. I believe in the real world rear wheel drives tend to run with toe out. Good game though, I played it round a mates for the first time yesterday.

saiyu · Post 12 Mar 2006, 15:58

I'm trying to find out what positive and negative toe are in relation to toe in and out, as I know I want toe out on the fronts in TRD3 but the values are positive and negative, and I can't find a definitive answer on whether toe in is positive or negative toe.

Scuderia_Russ · Post 12 Mar 2006, 16:34

Positive is probably toe in but that's an educated guess as I haven't heard it called that before.

luisandregg · Post 12 Mar 2006, 17:23

saiyu wrote:I'm trying to find out what positive and negative toe are in relation to toe in and out, as I know I want toe out on the fronts in TRD3 but the values are positive and negative, and I can't find a definitive answer on whether toe in is positive or negative toe.

Did you donwload the game or did you buy it? I donwloaded it but now I can't find a crack or something like that. Do you know what to do it this case?

Scuderia_Russ · Post 12 Mar 2006, 17:30

Did you download the demo? This game's better than Gran Turismo for gameplay but the graphics aren't up to GT4 standards. I like the fact that you can damage cars and roll them plus the fact the A.I. is exactly that... intelligent. I know which one I would rather own.

taleed · Post 21 Mar 2006, 19:32

Your comments about this subject is correct...
...I would just like to add a bit on this question.

Downforce:
The aerodynamic force that is applied in a downwards direction as a car travels forwards. This is harnessed to improve a
car's traction and its handling through corners.

Drag:
The aerodynamic resistance experienced as a car travels
forward

Turbulence:
The result of the disruption of airflow caused by an interruption to its passage, such as when it hits a rear wing and its horizontal flow is spoiled.

get my flow??