Overtaking in F1 and what it should not be

[beelsebob]

No, that's just it, not everyone can use DRS.

The race leader can NEVER use DRS. But, the guy behind him can.

A driver can sit in 2nd place all day long and then spring DRS on the last lap and win. How is that fair?

It's not – luckily though, it's also not true, as China demonstrated. Note that none of hamilton's overtakes were under DRS.

[bhall]

When is the race leader within a second of another driver, thus allowed to use DRS? Never.

That Hamilton's pass for the win didn't require DRS only furthers my original point that DRS is unnecessary.

[beelsebob]

Note in all of this, I am not a DRS supporter – just not for the reasons you outline. Instead, because the overtake is not the exciting bit – instead, the battle before hand is, and the question "will he, or won't he manage it", rather than simply the inevitability that DRS brings.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

No, that's just it, not everyone can use DRS.

The race leader can NEVER use DRS. But, the guy behind him can.

A driver can sit in 2nd place all day long and then spring DRS on the last lap and win. How is that fair?

That will never happen. A driver intentionally sitting back the whole race only to spring a banzai last lap move? Nah not buying that.
We saw that Tyres make a bigger difference at the end of a race.

I wouldnt worry about a hypthetical situation until its happened.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

DRS is an ingredient in a tasty pie this year. It makes things interesting.

[BreezyRacer]

What's to stop a driver from riding out an entire race behind a car he wouldn't ordinarily be able to pass only to use DRS on the last lap and win the race? Is it fair to require teams/drivers to have to be a full second better than everyone around them to guarantee their just rewards?

Given this scenario you would see pass backs thru the whole race. Though there might have been some pass backs I didn't see ANY passbacks. Moreover, when Hamilton passed Vettel, or Webber passed Schumacher, etc there were no pass backs even attempted. Passbacks have not been any problem.

For instance, when Hamilton passed Vettel at turn 7, I thought it was a cleaver plan by Vettel to set Hamilton up for the DRS zone, but no, Hamilton's pace was superior so it wasn't even close by the time they reached the DRS zone.

Schumacher, OTOH, is a very hard driver to pass. Webber could have never passed Schumacher if it hadn't been for the DRS zone, and then it with only some cunning that got it done. Thus without DRS we have faster cars/drivers being held up for entire stints which is bad for racing and bad for spectating. DRS rather smartly takes care of this problem, or at least minimizes it.

The thing with the current tires is their rate of falloff and marbles. You don't have to make tires wear longer to take care of these problems. You can still have a wide speed difference between the hard and soft tires without reaching the end of their life with a 4 second slower lap all the sudden. That's just too crazy for drivers or fans to account for IMO. That's what makes the racing artificial to me ..

[beelsebob]

When is the race leader within a second of another driver, thus allowed to use DRS? Never.

That Hamilton's pass for the win didn't require DRS only furthers my original point that DRS is unnecessary.

I wasn't arguing that it isn't unnecessary (as my follow up covers) – instead I was arguing that it does not give the driver behind an inherent advantage. Instead it negates an inherent disadvantage. Unfortunately, for exciting racing, what we need is for the driver behind to have a *very* slight advantage overall, with {KERS, wake, tyres, DRS, car, ability} all taken into account. Personally I consider {KERS, wake, tyres, car, ability} to give that necessary combination at the moment more often than not.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

+1 Breezyracer

[beelsebob]

The thing with the current tires is their rate of falloff and marbles. You don't have to make tires wear longer to take care of these problems. You can still have a wide speed difference between the hard and soft tires without reaching the end of their life with a 4 second slower lap all the sudden. That's just too crazy for drivers or fans to account for IMO. That's what makes the racing artificial to me ..

Sure you do – it's the slow lap that causes the teams to change the tyres. If they didn't stop providing the grip to be able to run quick laps the teams would leave them on. That sharp falloff is exactly what's providing the high number of pit stops.

[bhall]

IndyCar did something similar to this a few years ago. They added a device to the rear wing - I can't remember what it was called - that created a massive hole in the air so that the trailing car would get more of an effect from the slipstream. They had to abandon that rule precisely because the hypothetical I outlined became their reality.

It's not racing to me if any driver is given an advantage he didn't have to work to achieve.

[siskue2005]

First people complain about Zero overtaking in F1

but now are they actually complaining about too much overtaking?

i guess you cant satisfy everyone!
But for me these races are absolutely fantastic, its giving fair racing....no one is held up like we used to have
last year Schumy was held up by Jaime for 40 laps at Australia, Alonso at Abu dhabhi etc etc...i think thats really unfair! not this!

[volarchico]

And yet the racing is much more exciting so far. We haven't seen DRS give automatic overtaking ability. Being within 1 second is not even enough...the drivers still have to get much closer before the DRS zone to actually make the move stick. We've seen some of the most interesting races in the last few years! I for one will just continue to watch and enjoy.

[bhall]

Well, this new "excitement" is beyond me. What others call being held up, I call racing.

Alonso/Ferrari couldn't pass Petrov/Renault in Abu Dhabi last year because Petrov/Renault did a better job racing in Abu Dhabi.

[volarchico]

I guess what they're saying is if you put both cars in clean air, which one would do the faster lap? DRS, KERS, tires allow those cars to get around the slower car so that they aren't stuck behind a slow car the entire race because there's such a LARGE disadvantage in running in their dirty air that it's impossible to get around.

[beelsebob]

First people complain about Zero overtaking in F1

but now are they actually complaining about too much overtaking?

i guess you cant satisfy everyone!
But for me these races are absolutely fantastic, its giving fair racing....no one is held up like we used to have
last year Schumy was held up by Jaime for 40 laps at Australia, Alonso at Abu dhabhi etc etc...i think thats really unfair! not this!

I disagree that it's unfair – this is motor racing, if you can't overtake, you don't belong here.