Recent reports have shown that the number of overtakes in 2011 so far is much higher than at the same three races in 2011. Finnish newspaper Turun Sanomat has found out the total is now at nearly 150 passes, but is that what Formula One really needs?
Sure, the point is that racing isn't about simply lapping quickly. If it was, we'd have a qualifying session, and then declare Vettel to be god. Instead, racing is about overtaking, blocking, managing components, etc.volarchico wrote:I guess what they're saying is if you put both cars in clean air, which one would do the faster lap? DRS, KERS, tires allow those cars to get around the slower car so that they aren't stuck behind a slow car the entire race because there's such a LARGE disadvantage in running in their dirty air that it's impossible to get around.
Yep, agreed! I don't just want qualifying. Maybe you didn't entirely get my point. And I think in the last 3 races we've gotten to see overtaking, blocking, and managing components quite a lot. So to me, it seems like things are working well.beelsebob wrote:Sure, the point is that racing isn't about simply lapping quickly. If it was, we'd have a qualifying session, and then declare Vettel to be god. Instead, racing is about overtaking, blocking, managing components, etc.volarchico wrote:I guess what they're saying is if you put both cars in clean air, which one would do the faster lap? DRS, KERS, tires allow those cars to get around the slower car so that they aren't stuck behind a slow car the entire race because there's such a LARGE disadvantage in running in their dirty air that it's impossible to get around.
I'm not convinced on the blocking front. Who has successfully defended against a driver with DRS?volarchico wrote:Yep, agreed! I don't just want qualifying. Maybe you didn't entirely get my point. And I think in the last 3 races we've gotten to see overtaking, blocking, and managing components quite a lot. So to me, it seems like things are working well.beelsebob wrote:Sure, the point is that racing isn't about simply lapping quickly. If it was, we'd have a qualifying session, and then declare Vettel to be god. Instead, racing is about overtaking, blocking, managing components, etc.
In that case I though he shone in China. The old man still has it in my opinion.volarchico wrote:Ah, but I meant Schu defending/blocking actually!
I agree 100% thankfully though it appears the powers that be do too. Given that they've given us a sticking plaster for 2 years, and what sounds like a much better solution in 2013. Cross fingers those rules work well.andrew wrote:Would opening and closing the DRS in rapid succession given a boost to the car. Kind of push it along?
The problem with KERS, dodgy tyres and the DRS is that they are just sticking plaster solutions. They don't solve the fundamental problems of F1. Instead, the paper over the problems and create artifical racing.
Overtaking is meant to be hard and be down to driver skill, not a mere formaility due to fancy little gadgets.
People often cite the 80's and early 90's as have great overtaking. I think this is what F1 should be taken back to, albeit retaining all the safety measures that currently exist.
Make the cars slower (both acceleration and outright top speed), reduce braking efficiency, get proper tyres, drop KERS and the DRS and then there might be some proper racing. Pretty much go back to basics!
Last year the BBC showed on the week before a race, past races from that circuit. I don't know how much of the rose tinted glasses there was for the stuff from the 90's and the 80's racing was new to me but these just seemed so much more entertaining.
. The guy may not be the most technically accurate in the world, but he certainly knew how to make it exciting.
the endless procession racing we saw last year is called motor racing?beelsebob wrote:I disagree that it's unfair – this is motor racing, if you can't overtake, you don't belong here.siskue2005 wrote:First people complain about Zero overtaking in F1
but now are they actually complaining about too much overtaking?
i guess you cant satisfy everyone!
But for me these races are absolutely fantastic, its giving fair racing....no one is held up like we used to have
last year Schumy was held up by Jaime for 40 laps at Australia, Alonso at Abu dhabhi etc etc...i think thats really unfair! not this!
A couple of things to remember about the 80s and 90s .. the cars were far less understood than they are today. There isn't that much difference in pace between the top 14-16 cars, and all the drivers today are quite good on their own merits. Plus when they show footage they are not showing every droning lap of the races, just the sweet spots.andrew wrote:Overtaking is meant to be hard and be down to driver skill, not a mere formaility due to fancy little gadgets.
People often cite the 80's and early 90's as have great overtaking. I think this is what F1 should be taken back to, albeit retaining all the safety measures that currently exist.
Last year the BBC showed on the week before a race, past races from that circuit. I don't know how much of the rose tinted glasses there was for the stuff from the 90's and the 80's racing was new to me but these just seemed so much more entertaining.
Its still difficult, its not like they press the button and they magically come in front!andrew wrote: Overtaking is meant to be hard and be down to driver skill, not a mere formaility due to fancy little gadgets.
So putting drum brakes instead of carbon is proper and not gimmiky stuff ? would that solve the "actual" problem ?Make the cars slower (both acceleration and outright top speed), reduce braking efficiency, get proper tyres, drop KERS and the DRS and then there might be some proper racing. Pretty much go back to basics!
