HRT F111 Cosworth

[wesley123]

how do you come up with an Toyota powerplant? Apart from that it was 2 years ago these engines last ran they are also an downgrade compared to the Cosworth.

[Petroltorque]

I too must admit to surprise that anyone would consider the the RVX-09 as a viable power plant. There is certainly no evidence to suggest that this motor is on the market. Nor do I see HRT parting with any extra money to run the 2011 Williams box if that money could be spent on a badly needed KERS.
To my knowledge there are two off the shelf KERS available Magneti Marelli Battery KERS and Flybrid clutchless Flywheel KERS. I would discount Williams KERS, their battery system seems neither powerful or reliable. Their Flywheel system is a Mechanical Electric hybrid, not suited to F1 in its present guise. In any event Williams have their hands so full fighting chassis problems I doubt they have free resource to perfect their KERS.
I think both Flybrid and Magneti were offering their systems for around $1 milion a year. The problem with the Magneti system is I doubt it will be a match for the bespoke systems they provide for Ferrari and Renault and if HRT want to move forward they are not going to achieve that simply coying bigger squads.
Flybrid systems have the most adavanced mechanical flywheel tech . Their CFT F1 system weighs 18 kg which is 3kg lighter than the Zytek system on the Mercs. One of the advantages flybrid is that the system is more efficient by maintaining harvested energy in the kinetic state so its unlikely to be as severe on the braking characteristics on the chassis. I know Honda's integration of the system they positioned the Flywheel at the front of the engine,taking and releasing drive off the crank, which meant diminshing the fuel capacity by 13l but also had the advantage of moving the weight of the chassis forwards.
As I see it HRT really need to concentrate on the two areas of aero optimisation and KERS integration to move forward.

[ESPImperium]

how do you come up with an Toyota powerplant? Apart from that it was 2 years ago these engines last ran they are also an downgrade compared to the Cosworth.

The reason i came to that is due to the Magnetti system that Renault are using isn't too dis-simmilar to the one that Toyota were going to use, and only used in the TF109-02 chassis. The Renault Magnetti system is probably the best option for Hispania as its probably the most cost effective to them as the Mercedes/Zytec system €5m and is the lightest and most powerful, the Ferrari Magnetti system is only available as part of a Ferrari 056 engine supply such how it is embedded in the engine, so ive heard.

The RVX-09 wasn't a bad block, it was the least powerful yes, but was the second most economical in fuel at the time.

Im not sure what can be done with Hispania and KERS for 2012, Magnetti could be the best for them, as long as they could interface it with the Cosworth CA2012ks MGU and the Cosworth Electronics pack that is also used with the Cossie engine. Im sure it could be done, but im not sure how it could be done.

However there is one rumour ive seen circulating is that the new owners of Hispania have dealings with Honda. and once the 3 year deal that Hispania has for Cosworth power is over, Honda could be interested in a engine supply as a way back into F1 in 2014. That would mean Hispania would get a decent wad of cash and a decent supply from 2013 at the earliest.

One thing is for sure, hispania need to come up with a good chassis and aero package for 2012 before KERS is thought about.

[wesley123]

ah in that way, quite unlikely though, although Pirelli till runs these engines.

I would say they keep on with this until 2014, and build the team to make the big step, much like Red Bull did. They dont even have the finances, manpower or whatsoever to make the step, you can try to do so but they'll fail worse then that they are doing now.

As for the sponsorship, I really wouldnt want to have my corporate logo on a car like the HRT, it is not based on performance or any of that, no it is the teams stability that holds it back. It has changed owner twice now, first buy some guy named Cabarante who had a trial and fine, not the most trustable person, and you do not even have to know these facts to think that, based on the looks I wouldnt trust him with my money either. Then for the new owners, just as lackluster they are. I would rather invest my money in Virgin racing, these guys might not have the performance but they have a solid base to builde up on, Hispania has not, what makes me think that if I invest an 80 million in the team the owners just run away with that? It is qutie likely that Cabarante made a huge profit by just buying the team and selling it again.

[Petroltorque]

I think one has to take any rumours about HRT with a large dose of salt, particularly those emanating from Spanish press. AFAIK there is only one other engine option for 2014, that is Craig Pollock's P.U.R.E. operation. The acronym of which is also a term for dog excrement used in the tanning industry, that should some up that effort.
No one disputes that HRT will have to concentrate on big improvements to their chassis but KERS cannot be added as an afterthought because whatever system rum will affect C of G, cooling and brake balance, the concept has to be included in the initial design.
AFAIK Cosworth are investigating their own inhouse KERS solution, Mark Gallagher stated that they in contact with several suppliers and an announcement will be made towards the end of the year. I think he discounts the Williams systems as an option.

[LotusF1]

how do you come up with an Toyota powerplant? Apart from that it was 2 years ago these engines last ran they are also an downgrade compared to the Cosworth.

The reason i came to that is due to the Magnetti system that Renault are using isn't too dis-simmilar to the one that Toyota were going to use, and only used in the TF109-02 chassis. The Renault Magnetti system is probably the best option for Hispania as its probably the most cost effective to them as the Mercedes/Zytec system €5m and is the lightest and most powerful, the Ferrari Magnetti system is only available as part of a Ferrari 056 engine supply such how it is embedded in the engine, so ive heard.

The RVX-09 wasn't a bad block, it was the least powerful yes, but was the second most economical in fuel at the time.

Im not sure what can be done with Hispania and KERS for 2012, Magnetti could be the best for them, as long as they could interface it with the Cosworth CA2012ks MGU and the Cosworth Electronics pack that is also used with the Cossie engine. Im sure it could be done, but im not sure how it could be done.

However there is one rumour ive seen circulating is that the new owners of Hispania have dealings with Honda. and once the 3 year deal that Hispania has for Cosworth power is over, Honda could be interested in a engine supply as a way back into F1 in 2014. That would mean Hispania would get a decent wad of cash and a decent supply from 2013 at the earliest.

One thing is for sure, hispania need to come up with a good chassis and aero package for 2012 before KERS is thought about.

I seriously would like to know your sources...I even doubt toyota knew accurately at the time where their engine standed compared to opposition...jeez...your posts are the worst I have ever read...all of them...your a ron dennis wannabe...without tech knowledge....

[kultmagazin]

@Lotus F1 - i disagree, and find ESPI on of the best members of this forum! He really knows shat he's writing. AFter all, we are all here to write our opinions!

[ESPImperium]

how do you come up with an Toyota powerplant? Apart from that it was 2 years ago these engines last ran they are also an downgrade compared to the Cosworth.

The reason i came to that is due to the Magnetti system that Renault are using isn't too dis-simmilar to the one that Toyota were going to use, and only used in the TF109-02 chassis. The Renault Magnetti system is probably the best option for Hispania as its probably the most cost effective to them as the Mercedes/Zytec system €5m and is the lightest and most powerful, the Ferrari Magnetti system is only available as part of a Ferrari 056 engine supply such how it is embedded in the engine, so ive heard.

The RVX-09 wasn't a bad block, it was the least powerful yes, but was the second most economical in fuel at the time.

Im not sure what can be done with Hispania and KERS for 2012, Magnetti could be the best for them, as long as they could interface it with the Cosworth CA2012ks MGU and the Cosworth Electronics pack that is also used with the Cossie engine. Im sure it could be done, but im not sure how it could be done.

However there is one rumour ive seen circulating is that the new owners of Hispania have dealings with Honda. and once the 3 year deal that Hispania has for Cosworth power is over, Honda could be interested in a engine supply as a way back into F1 in 2014. That would mean Hispania would get a decent wad of cash and a decent supply from 2013 at the earliest.

One thing is for sure, hispania need to come up with a good chassis and aero package for 2012 before KERS is thought about.

I seriously would like to know your sources...I even doubt toyota knew accurately at the time where their engine standed compared to opposition...jeez...your posts are the worst I have ever read...all of them...your a ron dennis wannabe...without tech knowledge....

We are all here to have an opinion, but i try to listen to the more extreme rumors, as some could have some milage, and the Toyota and Honda ones i think have some milage. Yes i may not have the technichal know how in areas, but i do watch the buisness side of things more than the technichal side. And i do have data sheets that now date back to 2000 on some aspects of the sport, and engine data from 2006 till present. So i have some estimation about what i may be talking about.

We all have our strenghts and weaknesses, and our opinions, try to leave personal attacks out of threads that are already cluttered up enough with fanboi opinions, and dislike for one team or another. If you want to attack someone personally, PM them, but dont call someone out in a thread as i have seen on other message boards more liberal than this leading to a ban or tempoary exclusion.

[marcush.]

maybe I´m too soft but i don´t think it´s very helpful to bash people for floating around some more extreme ideas.

Toyota supplying whole cars and service to Pirelli for tyre testing todays so it seems not so far fetched anything is possible if it fits the bill of those in charge in Cologne...who have to create income and turnaround.

[Muulka]

maybe I´m too soft but i don´t think it´s very helpful to bash people for floating around some more extreme ideas.

Toyota supplying whole cars and service to Pirelli for tyre testing todays so it seems not so far fetched anything is possible if it fits the bill of those in charge in Cologne...who have to create income and turnaround.

And who were in the process of designing a 2011-spec car with HRT. Does anyone else think that Toyota will become the sort of company that supplies technical partnerships with teams? It's hard to describe what I mean, but the sort of company that the teams would come to to get maybe bits and bobs designed for their car? Aren't Ferrari using their wind tunnel, and they rent out their simulator?

I think that the word I'm looking for is something like contractor.

Or maybe I'm raving!

[marcush.]

ah yes ..right .They had almost a contract with HRT last year...so maybe some key people need to disappear before Toyota would again speak to them..

But then F1 is a business and more crazy things have happened ...

I think Toyota clearly wants to be or is already service and system supplier in the same meaning as Mclaren is to FI and Virgin or Williams is to HRT Red BullTechnologies to TR and Team lotus

[sefarad]

New fw in Hungary:

Regards

[Muulka]

I thought it looked different! DOesn't seem to be well made- Liuzzi (Did Riccardo use it?) had at least two failures of the new cascades- in one of the practice sessions and in Q1.

[sefarad]

I thought it looked different! DOesn't seem to be well made- Liuzzi (Did Riccardo use it?) had at least two failures of the new cascades- in one of the practice sessions and in Q1.

Yes, Ricciardo used it too


And Liuzzi with one cascade (Q1??)


Regards

[JackHammer]

I noticed them both flying off, but didn't know it was a new front wing
Both on the left side too (I think?)
Wonder if any more failures will happen in the race with that wing...