Japanese GP 2011 - Suzuka

[raymondu999]

I don't agree with the tyres not suiting him. I don't think he likes them, but i don't think they suit one or the other.
The tyre is a resource remember. So you can use them in more than one way. If both were going from A to B they probably would reach in similar time but in different ways. Push early the cruise, cruise early then push.

Agreed; as I stated a few pages ago:

I don't know if that gives Jenson an overall edge in terms of just raw race pace. It means he's quicker at the end, but he's quite a bit slower at the start of the stints.

Here's a thought. Once Red Bull knew that their car was chewing its tyres; I think they should have gone for a 4-stop. That would allow them to play to their strength of pace; and their weakness in tyre preservation would be a much smaller factor; whilst Button who managed his tyres well would have less of that; and would have more to do in terms of outright pace. Which, in turn, would also have not been good for their fuel consumption.

If Red Bull DID 4-stop; I think that was a race win today. McLaren would have no choice but to respond. They saw what happened in Shanghai too; and knowing the likelihood of safety cars I don't think they would want to risk being caught out on their last stints with someone on much fresher rubber right behind them.

[Pierce89]

That was a good race on one of the best tracks, I still can't believe they tried to replace this with Fuji..

Congratulations to Seb and RBR for a well deserved title =D>

Also congrats to JB for the win and Alonso for being up there when he really shouldn't, though I think Vettel might have been a bit extra cautious just to secure the title as early as possible. Let's see how he will drive in the remaining 4 races.

With regards to the latest Hamilton incident, after all the aggression expressed by fellow forum members against Felipe it seems LH did the right thing and took responsibility (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2695 ... a-contact/) for what was clearly his fault: he might not have actually seen Massa, but he sure as hell knew he was way too slow out of 130R. Still, I don't think that was worthy of any penalty. Now we'll probably have a few posts explaining how it was not Lewis' fault, despite the fact he apologized for it..

As for the start, I really think Button should have kept his straight line, it was Vettel who had everything to lose and should have backed off, but either way the WDC would be his. Seems JB is too much of a nice guy. Maybe he can work on it for next year!

Here's hoping Ferrari and McLaren can be closer to RBR next year, with Mercedes up there too. A 7-way battle for the WDC would be excellent after what we had this year..(I'm excluding Massa for obvious reasons)

I'm normally quick to jump on Hamilton this year, because he's disappointed me performing under his abilities and then being overagressive to make it up(a repeated thame this year). But honestly, what Hamilton did, is nothing compared to Vettel's behavior on the start. He claims not to have seen Button, but let's use logic. If Button got a bad start, then no reason to swerve over, but if Button got a good start thare may be a reason to swerve but with a good start Vettel knows Button is already there. Vettel claims he didn't see Button but if Button's not coming along side then there is no reason to swerve. Vettel swerved BECAUSE HE KNEW BUTTON WAS ALONGSIDE HIM
I truly believe Vettel was ENTIRELY TO AGGRESSIVE and he deserved a penalty.

[CHT]

Here's a thought. Once Red Bull knew that their car was chewing its tyres; I think they should have gone for a 4-stop. That would allow them to play to their strength of pace; and their weakness in tyre preservation would be a much smaller factor; whilst Button who managed his tyres well would have less of that; and would have more to do in terms of outright pace. Which, in turn, would also have not been good for their fuel consumption.

If Red Bull DID 4-stop; I think that was a race win today. McLaren would have no choice but to respond. They saw what happened in Shanghai too; and knowing the likelihood of safety cars I don't think they would want to risk being caught out on their last stints with someone on much fresher rubber right behind them.

SC will ruin a 4 stops strategy.

[raymondu999]

I was thinking maybe they could have pitted under it actually. That way their tyres wouldn't have been knackered only 6 laps after the restart. Kind of like what they did in Spa

[CHT]

I was thinking maybe they could have pitted under it actually. That way their tyres wouldn't have been knackered only 6 laps after the restart. Kind of like what they did in Spa

I reckon the team might have already decided before the race to run a more conservative approach for SV, instead of putting him on 4 stops as it will require him to push every lap of his race to the limit.

[raymondu999]

True; but it's been demonstrated a few times this year that more stops usually is better than less isn't it? (to the limits of reason of course- a 20 stop race still won't be as quick as a 3 stop)

[CHT]

True; but it's been demonstrated a few times this year that more stops usually is better than less isn't it? (to the limits of reason of course- a 20 stop race still won't be as quick as a 3 stop)

Really depending on the characteristic of the pitlane and also the chance of SC.

if Vettel was running a 4 stops race at Suzuka, his race will also be ruined by the SC period at lap 24. By then he should have already completed his 2nd stop on soft.

[WhiteBlue]

I was not referring to his performance, I was referring to his character. Only a few drivers both past and present shake their fists at other drivers. And those drivers are usually painted as the "bad guys."

Even though Vettel has been driving for 5 years, we still don't know who is really is. Maybe having won those two WDC his is more confident with expressing his feelings. I think that shaking of the fist was a sign of things to come in the future.

I have my views of what his true character is but I will watch and see if it really what I think it is.

I imagine your view of what Vettel "is" is probably completely wrong. The man has left everybody to pick up his scraps for the entire year, made barely a handful of mistakes this year, and has won the championship while making it look like childs play. He's 24. Has no manager. Has driven his ass off without a single shred of controversy. Your only basis for your opinion is based on one wave of a fist in one race? Vettel waves his hand once at a backmarker and all the sudden he's a "bad guy"? Grow up dude. Vettel is a level-headed overachiever. Has been since he stepped into Formula 1. There's nothing else to know about him, what else could you gather from his behavior over five years? Should he start ramming people like others? Should he start hitting people in press conferences? Should he tell Adrian Newey or Christian Horner to "go --- swivel" over live radio? Should he get together with his Dad and threaten to leave the team when they aren't at the very front of the grid?

A great comment, I could not have said it any better, but that is the disadvantage of not being a native speaker.

I wonder why people who are fans of one great driver feel the need to talk down their best competitors. Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso and Button are all very worthy champions as they have shown over and over again. They deserve our admiration for driving at a very high level and extracting incredible levels of performance from their cars.

Personally I don't like Alonso and I don't cheer for him but that has never stopped me to admire his talent and ability. He is one of the great drivers on the grid and he has gone through his fair share of character building since he was humiliated by his McLaren experience. I'm still no fan of his but I admire the determination he demonstrates and the way he takes even the smallest opportunity to get a better position. A true racer. Ferrari can rely on him to always get the best out of the car. He very seldomly has a bad day or makes serious mistakes.

Seb Vettel definitely belongs in the same group of drivers with the unbelievable qualifying performance he has extracted out of the Red Bull. The Bull has not always been the superior car and by far not by the margin it used to have last year. But Vettel typically qualifies several tenth of a second above his team mate, who himself has a reputation as a qualifying specialist. Right now I think there is nobody on the grid who excells in one lap speed as Vettel does. Qualifying this weekend was a pretty good example for that.

[beelsebob]

I think that if the season started like how it is now, Vettel would just be like Vettel of 2010. A normal, mortal driver. Notice how frustrated he was at that backmarker. Waving his fist around like he's shooting dice. Frustrations setting in.. or VEttel's true colours showing up.

Let us not forget this was a championship deciding race. Remember how poorly others have performed under similar pressure, ie Lewis in Brazil 2008, Button in Brazil 2009, Webber and Alonso in Abu Dhabi last year..

It wasn't really championship deciding, was it – it wasn't like there was any preasure on Vettel... 1 point out of 5 races? He's not going to be worried.

[beelsebob]

True; but it's been demonstrated a few times this year that more stops usually is better than less isn't it? (to the limits of reason of course- a 20 stop race still won't be as quick as a 3 stop)

Really depending on the characteristic of the pitlane and also the chance of SC.

if Vettel was running a 4 stops race at Suzuka, his race will also be ruined by the SC period at lap 24. By then he should have already completed his 2nd stop on soft.

Actually, that would make his race not ruined. By the end of your second of 5 stints, you should have come out just behind the people half way through their second of 4 stints, a safety car at that point would actually be great for you – it would get you caught up behind them again.

[Mandrake]

It wasn't really championship deciding, was it – it wasn't like there was any preasure on Vettel... 1 point out of 5 races? He's not going to be worried.

There was definetly a lot less pressure than last year. But nevertheless did he want to make sure the title is his. Japan is a good place to celebrate, possibly better than Korea. Others have celebrated their WDCs here as well. With Button leading, Vettel could not afford to drop out of the race as Button would have gained enough points to delay the WDC victory to next race. Had Lewis or Fernando lead the race, I'm sure Vettel would have pushed harder.

It was the only logic step from Vettel's perspective.

About his "race craft" this race: Vettel didn't make any impression on Button or Fernando when he was behind. But to be honest, the others didn't make any impression on Vettel or whoever was in front of them either. The cars were too closely matched, DRS wasn't too strong here so the overtakes unrelated to tire wear were not present.

@ n smikle: Can you name the current drivers that haven't raised a hand or fist at a backmarker/competitor. I believe that everyone now and then expresses his feelings in the heat of the moment, and rightly so. They are fighting for position, 1 second lost behind a backmarker making stupid moves can cost you 1-2 positions in the end.

I'd be pissed as well.

[beelsebob]

@ n smikle: Can you name the current drivers that haven't raised a hand or fist at a backmarker/competitor. I believe that everyone now and then expresses his feelings in the heat of the moment, and rightly so. They are fighting for position, 1 second lost behind a backmarker making stupid moves can cost you 1-2 positions in the end.

I'd be pissed as well.

Indeed – people seem to be underestimating the effect here, I'm pretty sure the only reason Vettel was able to keep his lap time similar to Fred's was because of the DRS.

[raymondu999]

DRS and the tow - he said as much in the BBC Red Button Forums

[myurr]

Enough bickering, anyone else thought that Perez put in a sublime drive, to go from 17th to 9th?

Set the second fastest lap time as well, just 0.001s off Buttons!

[beelsebob]

Enough bickering, anyone else thought that Perez put in a sublime drive, to go from 17th to 9th?

Set the second fastest lap time as well, just 0.001s off Buttons!

Yeh, that's pretty insanely good, the BBC guys were saying that they would be very surprised if any of the new boys outperformed their team mates at sazuka due to the nature of the Ses and the line through them being difficult to figure out. Perez did good!