Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[munudeges]

I see some nonsense is being talked. Running a 2012 diffuser is not what is being stated here. What is is that running such an exhaust with a diffuser designed for a completely different configuration will make the car inherently unstable and not really tell you anything, or at least it should if it was working properly beforehand. There are two possibilities there.

If people had actually read what Gary Anderson had stated he said that the new exhaust configuration is not unknown to the teams, being what they ran prior to Red Bull starting the whole exhaust thing off, so at least getting something on the car to work well enough with what they were running would not have been too difficult. There is nothing about running a 2012 diffuser here. It's a logical thing to be wondering.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

It would be sensible to run a diffuser that actually worked properly with the exhaust position they were running rather than just leaving the 2011 one on that was designed for a completely different exhaust position. As Gary Anderson said, the whole configuration should not have been unknown to Mercedes so putting on a meaningful diffuser that would allow the car to work properly shouldn't have been too difficult.

Yet again, they seem to have very little presence of mind about these things.

Er...whats this about then?

Nonsense indeed....

[xpensive]

I believe that mun is somewhat worried that MGP, or whaever the team is called at the moment, is wasting precious testing-time with a car not equipped in an optimal or relevant fashion JET. As for myself, I'm far more concerned over how much of an attitude-change Bob Bell has managed to introduce in the engineering- and production department for the W03.

When managing an engineering team is what I do for a living, however in an environment a far cry from F1 standards, I have learned the hard way just how much of a tell-tale a sloppy appearance can be of an in-depth negligence to general quality.

I believe marcush would agree with me there?

[wunderkind]

When managing an engineering team is what I do for a living, however in an environment a far cry from F1 standards, I have learned the hard way just how much of a tell-tale a sloppy appearance can be of an in-depth negligence to general quality.

I do agree there were some areas on the W02 where the aesthetics did indeed looked second rate. But I think it was the result of a small team with a tight schedule to meet and rushed to produce all these parts. Yes, the quality of the exhaust pipes did look a little dodgy and the quality of some of the naked carbon parts would not have passed QC at McLaren. But I think it was just a case of the production department running on a tight schedule, not incompetence.

[Ferraripilot]

I believe that mun is somewhat worried that MGP, or whaever the team is called at the moment, is wasting precious testing-time with a car not equipped in an optimal or relevant fashion JET. As for myself, I'm far more concerned over how much of an attitude-change Bob Bell has managed to introduce in the engineering- and production department for the W03.

When managing an engineering team is what I do for a living, however in an environment a far cry from F1 standards, I have learned the hard way just how much of a tell-tale a sloppy appearance can be of an in-depth negligence to general quality.

I believe marcush would agree with me there?

I like the points you are making. I see W03 as another growth car for the team as only toward the end of '11 had they actually staffed themselves to appropriate levels to compete with the front runners. While W03 will be better, W04 will be the true test. On the other hand, if W03 is no good and Bell could not change the team paradigm then I could possibly see big changes taking place. My head tells me W03 will be a winner as Bell has essentially buried himself at Brackley all year. I truly hope to see more attention to detail though.

[xpensive]

...
I do agree there were some areas on the W02 where the aesthetics did indeed looked second rate. But I think it was the result of a small team with a tight schedule to meet and rushed to produce all these parts. Yes, the quality of the exhaust pipes did look a little dodgy and the quality of some of the naked carbon parts would not have passed QC at McLaren. But I think it was just a case of the production department running on a tight schedule, not incompetence.

While running the risk of coming across as someone judging an F1 team's technical department, I take the chance to xpress my sentiments here, where I always try to tell the engineers and technicians working for me that attention to detail is everything.

Deadlines are important, but I'd rather take a beating for being late than to deliver something half-arsed in time. Anytime.

Which is why I'm so surprised with these scruffy looking images of engineering from an F1 team carrying the "Mercedes" logo?

[munudeges]

Er...whats this about then?

Then sadly, I think these threads might be the wrong place for you JET. There was nothing about running any '2012 diffuser' (not mentioned anywhere) in anything that I or Gary Anderson wrote - simply an observation that you need to take these things as a whole and get something on the back of the car that will at least give you a representative picture and make the car drivable. Mercedes changed the whole aerodynamic profile of the car by running what they were running in a way that would probably have introduced unrepresentative instability.

You don't have to be much of an engineer to understand the concept of a lot of interconnected variables, where changing one that you think is in isolation but isn't actually alters the whole equation and gives you irrelevant results.

When it comes to producing new components it seems that this team either struggles to get them out or struggles with quality when they do.

[munudeges]

I do agree there were some areas on the W02 where the aesthetics did indeed looked second rate. But I think it was the result of a small team with a tight schedule to meet and rushed to produce all these parts.

In all honesty, I see that excuse as more than a little shaky now. Mercedes is certainly not the only team running to tight deadlines, they're not a small team and there are teams with less resources and less money producing better components.

[xpensive]

But as a whole, I'm not worried about the W03 being another W02, now when the design-engineering will be led by Bob Bell.
If nothing else, an R-something clone with a Mercedes-engine should prove a competent contraption any day of the week.

What concerns me far more is the development work over he season, with the three kings playing like an orchestra together?

As well as the W04, but that's another thread I guess?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ mun

You really think mercedes are going to change the diffuser to suit the exhausts? Do the math....
How long will it take to do it correctly?? On a car that has a short wheelbase to the longer wheelbase the W03 will have.
The longer floor will need more changes and possibly even an entirely new concept.
So they will spend time making adjustments that will have no relevance to the car they will use next year.

You totally forgo what mercedes were doing. They wanted to see what the total losses of the energised diffuser were. I even sourced the quote for what mercedes were doing...

You also level criticism at the team once again but totally forgot to mention niether Williams or Ferrari made any changes to their diffusers either. So while you worry wether this is my place or not, may I suggest you take that stick of yours and start beating the hornets nest in the respective Ferrari and Williams threads. As you are holding this against the team yet I see you have written nothing of the 2 other teams...

[dren]

Gary Anderson is an idiot. But hell maybe Mercedes is just pissing money in they wind...but c'mon now. This is an engineering team with top.engineers. give them some credit. We have no knowledge what they are doing. I am sure they had a very good idea of what they were testing and why.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Gary Anderson is an idiot. But hell maybe Mercedes is just pissing money in they wind...but c'mon now. This is an engineering team with top.engineers. give them some credit. We have no knowledge what they are doing. I am sure they had a very good idea of what they were testing and why.

+1
If the guy was any good he would be employed in f1 by now. Now he's being paid to be controversial.

[elf341]

xpensive wrote:
Deadlines are important, but I'd rather take a beating for being late than to deliver something half-arsed in time. Anytime.

This seems to be Mercedes' approach too. I think they realised that they'd rather have the extra 2 weeks to get something polished than to bring something out that's half-arsed and could give them confusing data.

The other thing is that we already know that individual components can be applied to radically different cars with success in both cases (e.g. the RB7 front wing onto the Ferrari), so we might even see the W02 with some alterations that will feature on the W03!

[yener]

Since they are the AMG team now. Are they going to use different engines or will they still have the same like McLaren?

[N12ck]

Since they are the AMG team now. Are they going to use different engines or will they still have the same like McLaren?

Same, engine development froze until 2014,