Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[dren]

Yeah, all the other teams know what they are doing but Mercedes does not.

[NonNewtonic]

Yeah, all the other teams know what they are doing but Mercedes does not.

Ha we will never know what is in their mind until the final product appear during the winter test

[marcush.]

sorry guys ,
I most certainly don´t know for SURE ,but :
Mercedes had big time troble with their cooling at the beginning of the year which was triggered by their decision to go for a short wheelbase plus a unexplainable difference of realworld cooling needs vs their predictions whereas Mclaren came up with exactly the opposite having too much cooling available .
As far as I understand Mclaren does use the very same KERS as MGP and it is a product of Mercedes HPE /Mercedes Sindelfingen...no carry over from the Zytek product Mclaren used in 2009 .

So it is very fair to say: a long wheelbase package is not preventing a challenge to RB7 when a ultra short one has not even shown the slightest hint of being competitive in race conditions or a qualy.


as for the rare opportunities to test ,it is now very clear that testing is still very important and no Driving simulator can and will be able to substitute real world driving.so it seems more than questionable NOT to equip your cars with a rash of sensors and gear up to have a full movable test rig going at the expense of out and out speed to gain valuable knowledge as soon as possible.
fourth in constructors was sealed very much after the summer break and they could have gained a lot by cumulating data with a car running to 2012 spec...
I´m still convinced they could have turned the table with w02 and a big redesign of the rear half of the car.
I still don´t get the idea behind having w03 late.

[NonNewtonic]

sorry guys ,
I most certainly don´t know for SURE ,but :
Mercedes had big time troble with their cooling at the beginning of the year which was triggered by their decision to go for a short wheelbase plus a unexplainable difference of realworld cooling needs vs their predictions whereas Mclaren came up with exactly the opposite having too much cooling available .
As far as I understand Mclaren does use the very same KERS as MGP and it is a product of Mercedes HPE /Mercedes Sindelfingen...no carry over from the Zytek product Mclaren used in 2009 .

@marcush

The McLaren did modify the KERS system they bought from Mercedes to suit the packaging of their car as the Mercedes KERS is design based on MGP. This make it less efficient compared to the one on MGP

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Not just that, but exhaust routing will also have an impact on engine performance.

The W03 is the culmination of mistakes learned from the 01 an 02. Hitting the ground running is their aim, which is why they want the extra time before testing the car.
We cannot use this board to point fingers at the teams supposed lack of attention to detail. We must go by what little we have, that is a longer car and wheel base, and a "novel" cooling system and radiator arrangement.

So, with this in mind mercedes have obviously decided to lower the cars centre of gravity. This was the W02 Achilles heal. Compromised by the wheelbase, the car couldn't utilise the Pirelli tyre to sufficiently allow a good development base.

What is the likelyhood we will see a super tight rear with Torro Rosso style double floor, along with McLarens U pod design? I keep thinking with the added space mercedes have a lot of ideas they could adapt for the car, bring them closer to the front.
The only fly in the ointment is that Pirelli have change the 2012 tyre to incorporate stronger front to rear balance.

I have deep reservations as to how the team adapt their car to tyres, perhaps with Bell around thus will not be as big an issue as in the past.

[raymondu999]

How on earth would you combine a double floor with a U-pod?

[xpensive]

...
Deadlines are important, but I'd rather take a beating for being late than to deliver something half-arsed in time.
...

Conclusively, I will now make one of my rare dead-certain predictions, much to JET's amusement and/or wrath;

- If the delayed W03 materializes with an impeccable finish and attention to detail, Bell has swung his magic wand and MS is a certain 2012 GP-winner!
- However, if the car is both late and resembles its predecessor in craftmanship, MS might as well start making plans for Le Mans and/or Indianapolis.

[aleks_ader]

So, with this in mind mercedes have obviously decided to lower the cars centre of gravity. This was the W02 Achilles heal. Compromised by the wheelbase, the car couldn't utilise the Pirelli tyre to sufficiently allow a good development base.

What is the likelyhood we will see a super tight rear with Torro Rosso style double floor, along with McLarens U pod design? I keep thinking with the added space mercedes have a lot of ideas they could adapt for the car, bring them closer to the front.

This contradicting, beacuse double floor makes higher CofG? Your statments are contradictong...

U pods are also pruduce low drag and less downforce, but is better for CofG? Is just the samo like in conventional design!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

How on earth would you combine a double floor with a U-pod?

Look at the Torro Rosso and inthink it could possibly house u pods.

@alekasanderthegreat.

It's not a statement, its a question to more technical members.
If it's not possible or contrary, can someone post why?
Thanks

[aleks_ader]

How on earth would you combine a double floor with a U-pod?

Look at the Torro Rosso and inthink it could possibly house u pods.

@alekasanderthegreat.

It's not a statement, its a question to more technical members.
If it's not possible or contrary, can someone post why?
Thanks

Double flor and U pods are also pruduce low drag and less downforce!!!

But u pods are better for CofG? Beacuse all compoment are little lower like double floor! For doube floor the whole design upper body (radiators) is just higher, beacuse they make a space for "air tunel" under it (between upper floor and under floor).

And so you cannot use the bought designs, beacuse the lack of downforce will be to much and CofG also to high.. Remember the top speed is not crutial, more importand is corner speed (downforce= Red Bull). But is true that is hard to find exatly ration drag/downforce, but primeraly is better have more downforce. Beacuse you could adapt it (downforce level)with wings angles from track to track... Is more convenient..

[marcush.]

I have yet to find hard facts of Mclaren modifying the Mercedes supplied KERS ,in fact Me3rcedes has officially announced they are supplying Engine and KERS to MCL...
And with engine installation power drawbacks for MCL...Not long ago one almost banned F1T member received some serious flak for suggesting MCL got less power than MGP ,the uproar was :no ways engines would differ more than .5% or something ....so what know? Is there a power difference or NOT?


To me W03 late arrival is a bad sign .Hitting the ground running is also hitting the ground at the right time ,and they already announced to be later than planned ,so they have realised to have deficits already ....
Or they have found something really spectacular in terms of performance breakthrough and really have the feeling they need to implement it from the start.
delaying the deadlines is only plausible when you need to change parts with long lead times =gearbox and tub ...So we might never see W03 but W04 or W03Evo ?

[xpensive]

...
To me W03 late arrival is a bad sign.
...

The very worst reason for the delay that I can imagine, is if the advent of Willis in October led to a fundamental change in direction, which could not only compromise the design itself, but also lay the foundation for future conflicts within the team.

Let's hope it's not so.

[wunderkind]

...
To me W03 late arrival is a bad sign.
...

The very worst reason for the delay that I can imagine, is if the advent of Willis in October led to a fundamental change in direction, which could not only compromise the design itself, but also lay the foundation for future conflicts within the team.

Let's hope it's not so.

I doubt that to be the case. Bob Bell is no slouch and I just can't think he led the team down the wrong avenue. But I do think that Willis might have added something new to the car.

I think it's too early for conflicts. I actually think it is positive that Brawn and Bell are accepting Willis' input so soon. If it is indeed the case that Willis has added something to the car.

[Mr.S]

I think it's a blunder. Mercedes will already be starting from the back-foot. Frankly I am loosing all hope.

Williams have said they will debut their new car in the 1st test.
Ferrari have said the same
Sauber have now also confirmed that they will debuted their car on the 1st day
Newey also said that RBR will be looking to debut their new car on the 1st day.

This time you have only 3 precious pre-season tests,not even 4 like last year. It's a disaster. Them debuting the car in the 2nd tests means there will be no Upgrade package. How can you develop an upgrade package in a week. You actually need more than 1 test to sort out all checks,make the car reliable & find a baseline set-up,check how the tyres work,their degradation level & so on.


Mugello will be the venue for the next big UPGRADE package. 3-4 days on in-season testinng,every team will be looking to bring a big package there.Unless Mercedes have a killer idea,this is a huge screw up. No other explanation.

Even with a huge screw up,your giving up too early. Most teams will use the 1st & 2nd test for basic car tests & the 3rd test for the upgrade. The mistake Mercedes did last year was that they introduced the upgrade package in the 3rd of the last test instead of the 1st day & the 4th day was completely rained off. Then they did an even more stupid thing by introducing furthur untested upgrades directly to the race.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Its ludicrous to suggest this is a blunder. It's just plain ludicrous given historical precedent.

RB6 delayed, winning car. MP4-26 delayed, winning car.

If you want even closer to home, BGP001 delayed, winning car!
That's just in the last 3 years!

W01 and 02 were on time and? Non winning cars.

There is nothing more to read into the delay other than the team felt it useful to their requirements, whatever they may be. Far better give these guys more time to work on a concept, than hurry out something that is unfinished... This is NOT the Bell way.

I plead we leave this thread alone until we have more concrete information rather than jump to silly conclusions.