Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[pocketmoon]

BTW: Mercedes Have a Private Cargo Plane?

Nope all cars are delivered by DHL which is the official transporter for F1[/quote]

And guess who own the half dozen planes used to fly the cars our ? Bernie.

[Schurcedes]

@JohnsonsEvilTwin: I believe that was my first post on this thread. We're not all evil twins or clones on this side of the fence.


I think Mr.S was pointing out Schumacher was quicker than Rosberg in terms of race pace in the latter half of 2011, a conclusion that I completely agree with. Schumacher also improved substantially between the 2 seasons compared to his teammate, all I am saying is that the trend will continue into 2012.

I linked to the article to point out the point marcush raised about MS outperforming NR in a better car may have some validity.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Apologies, I was confusing you with SchumiMercedes...

To split the season in half and then reach the conclusion that Schu is better than Rosberg is a false dawn.
By that token I could say Rosberg would vault ahead come the halfway point of 2012, and then be subside while Schumacher rises into ascendancy.
The end result would be Rosberg wins, again.

Schumachers 2nd half performances in 2011 where very good, particularly in Belgium. I just think that the occasional flash of his old self is still no match for the younger and faster Rosberg.

[Schurcedes]

Taken in isolation, perhaps. However in the context of the entirety of his second career and the 38 races he has done since his comeback I think it indicates (Schumacher's pace in the second half of 2011 does, that is) that it's at the beginning of an uphill swing in performance. He did not improve over the course of the season in 2010 as he did last year.

In 2010, he scored 34-38 points in the first part of the season and an equal amount in the second part to end up with 72 overall.

In 2011, on the other hand, his tally for the first part was almost the same as in 2010 despite the fact that the car was worse (Rosberg managed 3 podiums before mid-season with the W01 and 0 with the W02), but more importantly his total for the second half stood at 44. He outscored Rosberg 44-41 in the second half of 2011. All this despite having had 5 DNFs to Rosberg's 2.

That to me suggests the gradual improvement that was evident in the first half was coupled with a minor breakthrough of sorts after the mid-season break (getting the tyres to work better or some such), it could carry over to this year. If both end up with the same number of retirements I feel Schumacher will beat Rosberg both on points and results this year. Only time will tell.

[Cocles]

@JET Your logic is faulty, because you're tunnel visioning on the stats while ignoring the trends. Both should be weighed.

You treat Schumacher's age as if it by definition indicates he will be slower each season, yet his stats show the opposite. He's getting quicker.

Each time someone has tried to point this out to you or disagreed, you've brushed them off or used ad hominen by declaring them a "Schumacher fan". These actions make you appear to have bias.

I normally love your stat break-downs, but in this case your refusal to acknowledge Schumacher's improving trend, leaves me dubious of your conclusions.

The trends and stats give us nothing conclusive, but you can cherry pick them to say whatever you want. At the end of the day, either Schumacher will continue to improve and leapfrog Nico, or Nico will hold onto his lead, we'll just have to wait and see.

[diego1960]

@diego


No one is bashing Schumacher. An opinion was raised that Schumacher would beat Rosberg this year. I wanted to know the foundation of the opinion other than that of hope.

As you can tell I have researched this, and my only logical conclusion based on the previous 2 season is that Schumacher will be 1 year older and also facing an even greater task to match Rosberg.
I haven't seen anyone denigrate Schu, and yes he was a demon starter in 2011. But then this was also helped by the fact his Qualifying performances where very mediocre.
Rosberg and Schu share the same car after all.

Maybe Schumacher fans need to doff their cap in the direction of Rosberg. Maybe.

Well ok, the foundation of the opinion lies with the fact that MSC did improve over the course of the past two seasons. Let's not forget how horrible his performances where in the 2010 season, whereas in 2011 there was a spark reminding the Schumacher of old.

I have researched it too, and I can say that Nico although talented simply lacks the spirit, it seems many times that he is driving and not racing. China 2011 anyone? Sure he is a fantastic qualifier but when the result depends on cold blood and strong personality I do not believe that he is a match for Michael.

I do not believe that Schumacher fans are the problem here, I believe that the problem is that MSC's disadvantages are blown way out of proportion here whereas Rosberg's are not.

[Ganxxta]

Could you guys open a special ROS vs. MSC Thread please?

The last couple of pages are boring to read and the onlyconclusion is that some say MSC is better and some say ROS... I thought its F1 Technical, not F1 Fanboy.

[raymondu999]

I have researched it too, and I can say that Nico although talented simply lacks the spirit, it seems many times that he is driving and not racing.

I was amazed by Nico's ruthlessness in Bahrain 2010. The 2010 Red Bull is one of the draggier cars and is slow in a straight line - and even though it was only running on 7 cylinders Nico didn't even have a go.

[marcush.]

witout any doubt rosberg has lost momentum compared to Schumacher either one improved or the other did yield.In no ways one could say rosberg has beaten Schumacher constantly and it got worse for schu in those two years.We will see this weekend.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@JET Your logic is faulty,

Im saying Rosberg has beaten Schumacher for 2 years running. That is not faulty. There are people debating this...that is illogical.

Cherry picking is when you deny what happened in 2010 and 2011 and use trends to suggest there is some magical upswing that a 43 year old Schu will encounter in 2012.
I hope it happens, as I keep repeating. But I have already bet that Rosberg will beat Schumacher because I have historical precedent to go on. Facts.
Separate your heart from your mind, and get rid of hope.

Now you could use a trend and suggest micheal is getting quicker. I would probably go with that, yes. But it doesnt suggest he will surpass Rosberg. Trends arent the most reliable indicators.
I see there are a whole bunch of Schumacher aficionados out en force. Well all I can say to Schumacher beating Rosberg in 2012 is, good luck. Why? Because he'll need it.

Thats my 2 cents up on this subject.

[Cocles]

We have two facts, JET:

A) Rosberg outscored/outqualified Schumacher in 2010 and 2011.

B) Schumacher's driving greatly improved from 2010 to 2011.

When speculating for 2012, these facts now collide. Either Rosberg is going to continue his trend, or Schumacher is going to continue his. They're currently close, so if Schumacher continues his trend, he'll likely leapfrog Nico. I personally have no idea what will happen. As long as the driver is in a Silver Arrow, I don't care. This isn't about Schumey-love.

What it's about is you presenting the facts like this:

A) Rosberg outscored Schumacher in 2010 and 2011.

B) Schumacher's driving greatly improved from 2010 to 2011.

The facts aren't decisive. They only appear that way when you add your own personal emphasis... also known as bias.

We'll find out this weekend what direction the wind is blowing, but it's going to take most of the season to really know either way.

Just my two cents.

[aduka11]

Im a die-hard MS fan..

Right now im just happy to see him in F1 =D>

Last season he had best finish for Mercedes (4th place)

So thats enough for me...for now

[ivand911]

Im a die-hard MS fan..

Right now im just happy to see him in F1 =D>

Last season he had best finish for Mercedes (4th place)

So thats enough for me...for now

Me too. And he have many more memorable races than Nico. Monza,Spa, Canada,India. Silverstone, Singapore and Brazil were going to be great too.

[raymondu999]

I thought the Rosberg - MSC rivalry was a bit like McLaren 2011 and Red Bull 2010 really. Rosberg is the safe pair of hands; and MSC was more erratic. MSC had higher peaks; but lower lows. Only difference being Hamilton 2011 and Vettel 2010 were better in qualifying than their groupmantes

[Ferraripilot]

JET, I play my drivers a lot like the stock market. While the numbers are indeed useful, but the trend is more important. And the trend is Michael was a better racer for the second half of the season, especially from half race distance to finish pace where Michael just took off and was some .300 quicker every lap through the end. Nico is a great driver, but vanilla. Michael takes the chances to advance which is the only reason he was behind last season (and technical issues early in the season). What would be really sad would be seeing a Michael who no longer took those chances yet end up ahead in the points. That would be much more upsetting to me.