Team: Tim Goss (Director of Engineering), Paddy Lowe (TD), Neil Oatley (DRD), Martin Whitmarsh (TP), Jonathan Neale (MD), Sam Michael (SD) Drivers: Jenson Button (3), Lewis Hamilton (4) Team name: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
burlyman wrote:
McLaren have been running a deflecting front wing since last year that lowers the angle of attack at speed. Serves a similar purpose as Mercedes' rumoured RW F-Duct, unknown which is more efficient. There are some pictures that seem to show the FW doing the same thing in Australia.
Are there? I saw one photo in testing where it was really obvious, but nothing else, even when the Macca was at the end of the straights. I'm guessing that photo in testing may have been a one off. Happy to be proved wrong if anyone can find any other photos from Australia though...
scarlet wrote:Can't see enough in the top photo (endplate reflection looks angled but may just be that, a reflection), bottom two were in testing...
You can see it in the right hand side. It's subtle but it is leaning backwards.
Good for them is all I can say. The FIA failed to crack down on Red Bull for the last couple of years with their ridiculous flexing wing. They even failed to act when Ferrari's wing started oscillating all over the place. Seems like another team has managed to get on top of this and is now also reaping the benefits.
Coefficient wrote: All the teams swtich the engine mode to less aggressive setting once they are in a comfortable position.
I can't find anything in the rules, but after last years attempts to control EBD there were restrictions on changing the engine map. Are there if fact restrictions on changing the engine map while moving this year? Did McLarent have the option to use more fuel on was it fixed from the start?
scarlet wrote:Are there? I saw one photo in testing where it was really obvious, but nothing else, even when the Macca was at the end of the straights. I'm guessing that photo in testing may have been a one off. Happy to be proved wrong if anyone can find any other photos from Australia though...
I agree. While watching the race I never saw anything as dramatic as the wing movement we saw earlier.
I think the point is that the McLaren front wing flexes without displacing the FIA's testing position vertically, when it seems
to rather twist around the same position, which is far more subtle than Red Bull's outrageous vertical flex of last year?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
scarlet wrote:Can't see enough in the top photo (endplate reflection looks angled but may just be that, a reflection), bottom two were in testing...
You can see it in the right hand side. It's subtle but it is leaning backwards.
Good for them is all I can say. The FIA failed to crack down on Red Bull for the last couple of years with their ridiculous flexing wing. They even failed to act when Ferrari's wing started oscillating all over the place. Seems like another team has managed to get on top of this and is now also reaping the benefits.
Yeah, that Ferrari front wing made a joke out of FIA.
Hopefully KL will give us good shots of FW movement, given the lengths of the straights vs Oz. Must admit I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to look at the McLarens wing but it was very tricky. The above video is good evidence though.
I think the updated flex requirements are more than a little responsible for RB being behind McLaren at this point, much more so than EBD or blowing (in terms of the impact on each team of these changes). Coupled with the nature of Albert Park we saw perhaps a greater variance than we should expect this weekend.
Coefficient wrote: All the teams swtich the engine mode to less aggressive setting once they are in a comfortable position.
I can't find anything in the rules, but after last years attempts to control EBD there were restrictions on changing the engine map. Are there if fact restrictions on changing the engine map while moving this year? Did McLarent have the option to use more fuel on was it fixed from the start?
Brian
It's all in the throttle mapping, as to how the throttle "time lag" "throttle by wire" defines the time from letting off the throttle and the response or time lag of the throttle. Fly by wire throttle gives these options to mapping of time, open in FiA rules as to the time lag of full throttle and lifting off the throttle by the driver, but very tightly controlled to idle and opening, by the rules the time rate of off throttle can be set by the team...
RB used time for EBD mapping of the throttle configuration, as did Mclaren eventuallly, the time lag was essential as in blowing the exhaust on the diffuser... Newey, IHMO, mastered this early in his career and gave rise to it when the rules fitted the situation...
Last edited by speedsense on 20 Mar 2012, 08:02, edited 1 time in total.
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus
xpensive wrote:I think the point is that the McLaren front wing flexes without displacing the FIA's testing position vertically, when it seems to rather twist around the same position, which is far more subtle than Red Bull's outrageous vertical flex of last year?
As I recall it was 2010 where Red Bull had the outrageous flex, but since then they've introduced a subtle forward pivoting without the exaggerated flapping we saw at Hungary 2010 I think. That would surely interfere with the balance of the car. Ferrari obviously don't have any clue what's going on when they acquired half of Red Bull's wing.
What McLaren look as if they have done here is very subtle and clever.
xpensive wrote:I think the point is that the McLaren front wing flexes without displacing the FIA's testing position vertically, when it seems to rather twist around the same position, which is far more subtle than Red Bull's outrageous vertical flex of last year?
As I recall it was 2010 where Red Bull had the outrageous flex, but since then they've introduced a subtle forward pivoting without the exaggerated flapping we saw at Hungary 2010 I think. That would surely interfere with the balance of the car. Ferrari obviously don't have any clue what's going on when they acquired half of Red Bull's wing.
What McLaren look as if they have done here is very subtle and clever.
I think the testing methods of the FW's flexing is the barn-door opening for McLaren, see FIA Technical regs 3.17.1,
which pin-points where the testing load should be applied. This leaves ample opportunity to do what McLaren does.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is that the McLaren's front suspension looks like they're running a much softer setup this year. The whole thing looks a lot more stable and supple.
Is this the under the skin upgrade they were talking about for the Barcelona test? If I recall correctly before then the front end still seemed to be a little on the stiff side.
xpensive wrote:I think the point is that the McLaren front wing flexes without displacing the FIA's testing position vertically, when it seems to rather twist around the same position, which is far more subtle than Red Bull's outrageous vertical flex of last year?
As I recall it was 2010 where Red Bull had the outrageous flex, but since then they've introduced a subtle forward pivoting without the exaggerated flapping we saw at Hungary 2010 I think. That would surely interfere with the balance of the car. Ferrari obviously don't have any clue what's going on when they acquired half of Red Bull's wing.
What McLaren look as if they have done here is very subtle and clever.
I doubt it, hungary 2010 was red bulls most dominant performance pace wise.
