Mercedes - the eternal debating abyss.

[rjsa]

...
You forgot to mentio, Brawn being part of the technical group that proposed the new rules exploited successfully a loophole that he devised and was not acted upon by the rule makers.
...

This is one of the most bizarre urban legends of all, probably spread by himself and never documented. Fact is however that MrM spoke out already in late January 2009, after the first reports of the "DDD", that he saw the whole thing as highly innovative and not at all circumventing the rules or the spirit thereof, directly overrunning Charlie Whiting with a stroke of a pen.

In all probability, MrM was in collusion with his old machine operator all the time, all in order to upset FOTA's applecart.

You sure?

http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/04/ ... consience/

Interested to see that Ross Brawn has started responding to the criticism levelled at him by Flavio Briatore that he has misused his position as chair of the technical working group by not declaring his hand on the diffuser issue whenthe rules for 2009 were being discussed. Brawn raised the subject early last year, he says and proposed that the rules be tightened up.

“In March 2008 that was offered. If I’m frank I didn’t say ‘look we are going to do this diffuser if you don’t accept this rule’ because I’m not going to tell people what we’re doing, but I explained that I felt that we should have a different set of rules to simplify what needs to be done,” he said.

“I offered them and they were rejected, so my conscience is very clear. And those rules that I put on the table would have stopped a lot of things. It would have stopped the diffuser, it would have stopped all those bargeboards around the front, and it would have cleaned the cars up.”

I’ve been told by a senior engineer from a non-trick diffuser team that Brawn came to one meeting and said, albeit not in so many words, “Look we need to change the rules here because we are going to be miles ahead next year.”

The others chuckled politely given how far back Honda were at the time. They are not chuckling now.

[snoop1050]

merc should just pull out this team is a joke...

hopefully schumachers contract hasn't been announced because he has the sense to try and get the second seat at ferrari

[SeijaKessen]

So, the Merc's clearly have tire issues. As xpensive predicted, Alonso and Vettel disappeared off into the distance as soon as Schumacher's tires started going.

Perhaps the 3 kings are debating the finer points of how to properly set the car up for better tire longevity?

Will the W03 finally be ready in September? They still have 10 races to try for that elusive win number 2.

I'd like to think they'll spend August doing something...or perhaps they'll just take turns driving the Italian Stallion's 612 on the autobahn marveling at the engineering work done on it.

[xpensive]

I guess this race pretty much wraps it up and seales the fate for this team, despite starting from an artificial 3rd position,
MS finishes 7th or whatever, overtaken by the typical mid-field cars in the process. In front of the Daimler brass at that.

[Dragonfly]

And without whatever significant errors from both drivers plus the race fastest lap (pity a single one). The three stops speak tons about how they learned the (what seems unlearnable) tyres.

[SeijaKessen]

I guess this race pretty much wraps it up and seales the fate for this team, despite starting from an artificial 3rd position,
MS finishes 7th or whatever, overtaken by the typical mid-field cars in the process. In front of the Daimler brass at that.

I bet Schumacher is trying to see if he can take the 2nd seat at Ferrari in 2013.

Why would he want to retire with this stench of failure on him due to MGP?

I wonder what the mood of the Daimler brass was when they saw their woefully inadequate W03 starts falling back earlier than any other car. Norby probably took a leave of absence to avoid any questions.

[SeijaKessen]

Oh xpensive...

I was poking around and I saw this post raptor made back in October 2009.

There is an article on autosport:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78399

Interesting to see Mercedes increase their exposure in F1 while BMW are pulling out.

Mercedes Benz, part of the Diamler group is a very large company with farmore resources than BMW which is privately owned.
BMW does nothave the cash to burn on poor F1 results when that budget could be spent on new technology for their road cars ie.
hybrid technology
Direct injection petrol engines
light weight chassis design
auto on/off engine technology
hydrogen fuel cell technology.

Mercedes Benz has the resources to spend in F1 as well as tackle these projects.

We're about to see the limit on these resources soon!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Wow, x was spot on predicting the red bull and Ferrari would pull away.
I bet not anyone of us here could predict that.

We should sacrifice a Mercedes fan as doury to the great x's incredible vision!

[xpensive]

Easy now JET, I hear there's a fourth king in the pipeline, but his input won't be obvious until 2018, this is hilarious!
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I simply cannot believe that Norby and RB can pull yet another fast one on DrZ?

[SeijaKessen]

Wow, x was spot on predicting the red bull and Ferrari would pull away.
I bet not anyone of us here could predict that.

We should sacrifice a Mercedes fan as doury to the great x's incredible vision!

Well JET, every race week, we hear about how the W03 has a great chance at <insert track> and then when the race starts, MGP finds themselves unable to do a lot.

When Brundle had a brief word with Ross before the race about the RB engine maps, Ross looked like the kind of guy who didn't really care much about what happens with anything any longer.

MGP should hold a contest, where the winning fan(s) get to determine what needs to be improved on the W03. I'm not sure they could do any worse than the three kings who seem to be busy doing other things.

[SeijaKessen]

Easy now JET, I hear there's a fourth king in the pipeline, but his input won't be obvious until 2018, this is hilarious!
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I simply cannot believe that Norby and RB can pull yet another fast one on DrZ?

I think the game is up and both Ross and Norby the Hutt know their days are numbered in Stuttgart.

Ross just sits on the pit wall looking at real estate for his retirement, and Norby is busy spending lots of time at the McLaren pits ingratiating himself with Ron again. He laughs at everything Ron says. He comments on how witty he is, and what a fantastic dresser he is.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So the team want to move forward.

You castigate them for under performing, and castigate them further when they change something.
It's easy to see you are both trolling. Thought I'd point it out.

Now let me indicate something else. Loic Bigois was removed from his position, since his removal we have seen very little if any update to speak of aerodynamically. But what of Costa and Willis I can hear you both cry?
Perhaps they are management after all? Perhaps they have very specifically entailed roles that require them to oversee rather than pen?

Hence we now hear of a "designer" joining the team imminently.

Of course, you will have a ball in festering in you own verbal excrement, spouting it as a sign of the apocalypse. But x, you specifically have been very wide of the mark with this team. Your "prediction" was they wouldn't be here in 2011! Then 2012, now 2013? Third time lucky perhaps eh?

See, haug and brawn have 5 years. It was 3, but now they are reverting to the red bull model. And lest we all forget, red bull want backward in their 3rd year as I have already posted.

I'm not expecting a decent response....

[marcush.]

The facts are just blatantly clear:
Mercedes bought a championship winner already ready and streamlined for the RRA with a car ready for the 2010 season for rather small money....
Fact is the picture that was drawn up was nice enough to even lure Michael Schumacher into a comeback claiming a Championship was obviously the target not for year one but certainly year two or three.
The team never lived up to any of that and redressed all and every of their announcements .The championship team suddenly needed a restructure AFTER Brawn had been drawn in at Honda to do just this ..restructure and make Honda competitive....All along it was slowly admitted the team lacked a lot of expertise and was in urgent need of further recruiting ....
And now in year three in the lottery year we still have a car and team that lags behind in terms of development speed not only compared to Ferrari and RedBull but also Mclaren and Lotus and dare I say it :Sauber....(who had their headquarters in Hinwil build and paid originally by Daimler ,not to forget ..)
MGP does get their judgement wrong quite often and unfortunatelly this always seems to happen in public ...only a few days ago Ross Brawn had aired his view that he thought understanding the tyres was their single issue and development in other areas was not going to help or needed.Today it was rather obvious and admitted by top brass of MGP they need to find speed in the car -around 0.5seconds...enough said.

[munudeges]

AMG can hold the F1 team by itself with its numbers alone. It is a highly profitable part of Daimler that has minimal expenditure for its considerable returns.

Alas JET, very, very few companies can justify running a Formula 1 team and certainly not a small division like AMG. Just look at the massive manufacturers who have pulled out as perfect examples. I'd love to see what these mythical fantasy numbers are..........

[SeijaKessen]

JET needs to admit Ross and Norby the Hutt conned Merc into buying that team.

There is no silver bullet for the Silver Arrow.

They may as well wrap the car livery up with the Union Jack, and call it Team Tyrell since the difference is only in name. Much like the final 20 years of Tyrell, MGP is not a winner. They got lucky when their number was pulled in the Pirelli lotto.