Red Bull RB8 Renault

[raymondu999]

Throwing an idea into the works here - perhaps they never intended to break any parc ferme regs, and this is, in fact - a system for use during pitstops? I remember in 2010 a lot of people were saying Ferrari were doing that - because suspension adjustments as such were allowed when the car isn't moving (and the race has started, ie out of parc ferme)

[Cam]

Really Ray, why would you go and ruin a perfectly good opportunity to call RBR cheats? Sometimes....

Seriously though, good point. Although you'd think they would have stated that. I wonder if they could acyutlly prevent RBR from using it if it was indeed from the race.

[Dragonfly]

And I remember this was discussed recently on this very forum - a system for fast adjustment, sufficiently fast for a bit prolonged pit stop. When I read the news my first thought was about this.

[amc]

I think the adjustment mechanism could have been in a similar location to the pre-season Lotus ride height compensator at the bottom of the push rod, in which case the system could be hydraulic and done by altering a valve anywhere on the car. In fact that's a good idea...

I think this is being taken out of proportion though - I don't know the specifics of the adjustment mechanism on McLaren's brake ducts but the brake ducts can't be changed unless the weather changes. If they can be altered by hand then this is illegal. It's just the timing that makes Red Bull's appear controvertial (which may be why the story only came out now).

This probably has its own thread though. Sorry if that's the case.

[forty-two]

This probably has its own thread though. Sorry if that's the case.

If it does have it's own thread, I have yet to find it. Could someone point me in the right direction?

[Richard]

There was another thread, but best to keep teh conversation in one place, ie here? So I've locked the other thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13221

[strad]

From GP Week

It’s like 1994 all over again. Red Bull
have a button, but they say they’ve
never pushed the button, and until
anyone can prove otherwise there’s
nothing the FIA can do to punish
what appears to be a flagrant
violation of the rulebook.
For those with short memories,
the 1994 Formula One season saw
Benetton accused of running an illegal
traction control device known as Option
13. The software was present on the
car, but because the FIA could never
conclusively prove that it had been used,
the team were unpunished.
This time around, Red Bull have an
option on the RB8 that would allow the
team to change the ride height of the
car in parc ferme conditions, a clear
violation of the rules. But according
to team principal Christian Horner,
the team have never used the magic
button, making the ride height scandal a
non-issue.
The so-called non-issue hinges on
Red Bull’s ability – should they exercise
it – to manually change the ride height
of the car in parc ferme by pressing a
button.....“We never changed the ride height in
parc ferme,” Horner said after news of
the morally ambiguous option broke. “It
is a non-issue.”
Horner’s reply merely begs the
question – why have a potentially illegal
device on your car if you do not intend
to use it?

[Just_a_fan]

As with Benetton, my bet is that RBR will have used the illegal system.

As an ex-F1 engineer friend told me about the Benetton system "everyone in the pitlane knew they were using it - it was obvious".

The problem with these systems is that once they're available, the temptation to use them is always there. If it the difference between a title and no title, lots of people would risk using the system because it really is a no-lose option.

[gato azul]

o.k. it's not a RB8 front suspension layout (it`s from the RB7) but maybe it helps the ongoing discussion here.
If it's inappropriate to post it here, mods feel free to delete the post.



Any chance, that the "fuss" is about the item #4 - which look like preload adjusters for the torsions bars to me?

[turbof1]

Isn't this all just a bit far fetched? It looks like 9/11 conspiracy theories; Red Bull is known of pushing things which are in grey area's, but blatantly cheating is another.

[hardingfv32]

You are correct. It seems odd that we have never seen something like Knob #4 sticking out the side of the body. You would think something that can be manipulated by hand would not be very aero.

Brian

[myurr]

It doesn't sit outside the car. The accusation isn't that it's there for pit stops and the like, but when the mechanics are working on the car under parc ferme rules. There are actually a fairly large number of replacements made to parts on the cars under the FIAs supervision. The rule on needing tools to adjust the suspension is to ease the policing of that work to make sure that illegal changes aren't being made.

There's no real need to make them hand adjustable unless you think you're going to save some time during the practice sessions, which is unlikely to be significant enough to warrant any extra weight being carried (to have parts that are both tool and hand adjustable). You're not supposed to be making any changes during parc ferme, and during the race there just isn't enough time during the pit stops to make that kind of adjustment by hand.

You should also remember that Red Bull have not denied having hand adjustable suspension parts on their car, they have just said they didn't use them.

[Owen.C93]

The little FIA sticker we saw in FP was actually on the nose cone as well. So if anyone want to track down what hole that was it might be useful.

[hollus]

Something doesn't quite fit in all this story.
If they have something that can be adjusted by hand when nobody is looking, presumably in a matter of seconds, why would they actually want to use it in Park Ferme? Wouldn't it make more sense to use it in the pit lane in those 30 minutes before the race starts?

[Cam]

or on the gird when there's people all over the place and tyres and distractions..... maybe RBR are telling the truth? That's always a possability.