Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Nando]

So in theory if RBR has cheated then they have ran a optimal ride height for Qualifying fuel.
Then during Parc Ferme they have simply raised the car up to work with the extra 150kg´s of fuel?

If this is what they did (not assuming they did) then that is a massive advantage in Qualifying.

[marcush.]

don´t forget-you could alter rideheight at any time during Qualy as well..so dialing in the car for Q3 .... not a small advantage.
Obviously you need to lift the car to make adjustments...
To me the teams need to supply the setup and stedown sheets in correlation to every session to FIA to avoid this .So FIA knows rideheights with and without fuel and with a specific tyre inflation.

[raymondu999]

So in theory if RBR has cheated then they have ran a optimal ride height for Qualifying fuel.
Then during Parc Ferme they have simply raised the car up to work with the extra 150kg´s of fuel?

If this is what they did (not assuming they did) then that is a massive advantage in Qualifying.

I wouldn't say massive - the suspension still has to be hard and high enough to handle 5 tons of downforce, which would push the car down quite a bit more than the extra (compared to qualifying) 145-155kg of fuel, but an advantage nonetheless.

don´t forget-you could alter rideheight at any time during Qualy as well..so dialing in the car for Q3 .... not a small advantage.
Obviously you need to lift the car to make adjustments...
To me the teams need to supply the setup and stedown sheets in correlation to every session to FIA to avoid this .So FIA knows rideheights with and without fuel and with a specific tyre inflation.

Afaik they do supply setup sheets, not to mentin the cars are FIA-sealed and under camera surveillance after they pass the weighing bridge and until the race, to ensure parc ferme

[Nando]

I wouldn't say massive - the suspension still has to be hard and high enough to handle 5 tons of downforce, which would push the car down quite a bit more than the extra (compared to qualifying) 145-155kg of fuel, but an advantage nonetheless.

It´s a big advantage, i would say easily half a second if not a second.
Being able to run the car so much more lower then anyone else is a huge advantage.

[raymondu999]

I'm not saying it's no advantage, I'm just disputing the size of it. Even in 2010 when it was rumored RBR had a ride height system the difference quoted was nowhere near half a second. Whitmarsh quoted that based on their estimations, it should be worth 2.5-3 tenths that interview was shown either in BBC's pre-qualifying show, or the pre-race show in China 2010

[Nando]

I'm not saying it's no advantage, I'm just disputing the size of it. Even in 2010 when it was rumored RBR had a ride height system the difference quoted was nowhere near half a second. Whitmarsh quoted that based on their estimations, it should be worth 2.5-3 tenths that interview was shown either in BBC's pre-qualifying show, or the pre-race show in China 2010

For a track like SPA with 19 corners that would equate to around 0,015s in each corner.
I can´t dispute what he says but i think the gain is bigger then just 3 tenths.

I believe the car is run at it´s highest point of the whole weekend in Q3.

[Nando]

Maybe they use something similar to a Nivomat damper?

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/nivomat.pdf

[CHT]

Are teams allowed to tweak the car when they are on the grid?

Nope

I thought not too long ago, Mclaren was trying to fix Hamilton car on the grid?

[raymondu999]

Parc ferme is lifted once the race has started. I think you're talking of Monaco 2011 during the red flag? No parc ferme during mid-race red flags

[turbof1]

So in theory if RBR has cheated then they have ran a optimal ride height for Qualifying fuel.
Then during Parc Ferme they have simply raised the car up to work with the extra 150kg´s of fuel?

If this is what they did (not assuming they did) then that is a massive advantage in Qualifying.

I wouldn't say massive - the suspension still has to be hard and high enough to handle 5 tons of downforce, which would push the car down quite a bit more than the extra (compared to qualifying) 145-155kg of fuel, but an advantage nonetheless.

That depends on the track. Tracks where you can't get usch loads of downforce, like Monaco or Singapore, or tracks were you don't need that downforce, Monza, you don't get those loads and thus suspension can be less stiff. So there the advantage would be bigger.

[CHT]

Parc ferme is lifted once the race has started. I think you're talking of Monaco 2011 during the red flag? No parc ferme during mid-race red flags

Cant really remember which race, but I do remember is was at the starting grid before the start of the race. The engineering were rushing to fix hamilton car and he IIRC he eventually won that race.

[CHT]

I think its 2011 chinese GP, when he had a fuel pump problem.

[raymondu999]

Damage is allowed for repair. Changing parts is not allowed

[SDG31]

It was China 2011. He had a massive fuel leak in the garage and they sent him to the grid without all the rear bodywork attatched so they got out in time. I dont think its against the rules to actually repair damage etc on the grid either, but changing setup is only allowed in the wet I think. Sorry if it's a bit off topic

[elFranZ]

Red bull is a smelly fish these days.

I smell success, ingenuity, creativity.... nothing remotely negative.

Brian

It would be interesting to know the general reaction to such a matter applied to another team, let's say Ferrari...
I bet the most common comments would sound like "Italian cheaters", "Italian mafia", and so on.
Rules are rules, end of the story. You cannot touch anything without authorization in parc fermè, and in fact they were doing. It has nothing to do with creativity, I simply call it "breaking the rules", or CHEATING for the friends.
This is becoming disgusting, but that's only my stupid opinion.