Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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edmundane
edmundane
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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Does anyone have any idea how DRS affects DF on the high DF vs the low DF wings?

Do you lose more relative DF opening DRS with a high DF wing vs a low DF wing or vice versa? as much as the gap is the same size when open I don't imagine it to behave in a completely similar fashion between the different wings since the main element is so different.

so I'm wondering - with that, and pairing the front DF levels for counter-balancing the rear, it could mean that with one wing you have to open DRS later than the other so you dont lose the rear of the car? the difference could be nominal but then this affects how early you can apply throttle and that could have a large effect on a track like spa?

CHT
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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Does anyone know when was the last time a team telemetry chart was revealed by a driver?

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Chuckjr
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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bhallg2k wrote:Why did Hamilton share this with us?
I realize this is a technical forum, but this question is inherently not a question which is technical in nature, its answer also cant be entirely technical. I don't know why I am taking the time to write this, but since I do care about the people in this forum, and all the help offered to me through the knowledge shared, I thought I would return the favor even if it gets deleted. So here is my 2 cents.

I think to know why LH did this has nothing to do with the technical aspect of the trace, or the fact his car was/was not slower over the course of a lap. I think this was just a catalyst to the bigger picture--an insinuation of his continued frustration with his position as a driver and his placement/requirements at Macca, Int.

First, he is entering the best years of his career. He has experience, a title, some respect from the other drivers, and his skills clearly are there. But look at his position as far as what he wants and what is offered to him at Macca....

Macca has a rule that we all know that states the real trophies stay in England. Period. I doubt even the talents of one LH will bend Ron or Whitmarsh to change what has always been in place at that company. Should Ron allow him to take the real deals, Ron I am sure will be receiving a lot of calls from former great Macca drivers (with many wins and equal or more WDC's) demanding that they get the real ones also. It would open a colossal cluster f%&k can at Macca which non of the leadership there has time for or would put up with. Therefore, imho, I don't see it happening. Considering how important LH has emphasized his desire for the real thing, clearly this is a HUGE rub point for him. How do we know this? Just before entering the break he actually publicly vented his frustration regarding not getting the real trophies, and that trophies and helmets are "the only tangible evidence a driver has to carry with him as he looks back at his career" or something along that line is what he said, and, that Macca would have to pay if they wanted HIM to put up with that rule. Just who does this guy think he is? He did this in public to millions and millions and millions of people?!? Tell your girlfriend, sure, your brother, sure, dad, sure, but the world?? IMO, that is completely inappropriate. Nevertheless, I think it was the first straw showing his growing frustration there.

Secondly, he comes back from break and actually says publicly that the contract he was offered was "sh*t". He said this about Macca!! An international, multi multi multi hundreds of millions of dollars company with a long, storied history, and a very calculated class act of nobility that they take great pains to potentiate and ensure. It has been and will always be a major mark of character with this team. They now have a driver who is desecrating this by throwing into public obscenities towards a viable contract I am sure worth millions that any one of us would probably cut a nut off to have the opportunity to consider as a racing driver. Further, I ask, would any of you say that when you received a contract from a major international cooperation in regards to YOUR vocation/contract?? I would say 99% of you would not, and the 1% of you that would, would no longer have that contract as an option when you returned to work on monday. Further, you would be removed, and have no chance at ever working with that company again, and probably no chance to work at any serious company in your field again. To me, its a big deal and if I was Ron or Martin I would have NO TIME AT ALL for such behavior and nor should they as far as I am concerned.

Third...He decides to put into the public, private technical team information. Valuable information? Thats being argued, but that is irrelevant to the psychology of what is really going on here. The point is that LH is pissed because he really is in a pickle and he is venting this frustration by undermining the central source of his frustration. Justified frustration or not, putting that photo out was a blatant act of insubordination of the team, and even if the information is meaningless for the most part, it is, in fact, private team information which he has absolutely no business putting into the public eye and is publicly abusing the entire team by the action which shows a cavalier and out of control attitude which not only does not fit the Macca personnel equation, it really does not fit any action by any driver on any team--especially Macca. I think it goes back to the decision to bring him in as a rookie to a top flight team--he never paid his dues and now thinks he is something on a stick--he may not say this and act calm in interviews, but his actions are what you have to read to understand what is really going on here.

So, why would he do this? Look at his position--should he leave Macca, he would embrace serious risk to the highest point of his career as far as driving potential is concerned. Most likely he would not go to RB or Ferrari so that would leave Lotus and maybe Sauber/Williams as options. Neither of those teams is nearly as much as a guarantee to be competitive as Macca year after year. That, imo, is something he simply does not want to risk at this point, and further, if they were not competitive, he would absolutely blow a fuse and he may just call it over prematurely because quite frankly, I don't see in LH a driver with a ton of "just shut up and drive it" gumption like a Mark Webber or Fernando Alonso. LH has said many times he is only here to win a lot of races and he expects as such.

Should he stay at Macca, he will end his career with a bunch of fakes sitting on his wall (should he get wins--I know a few drivers and they all have tossed their 2nd place and lower trophies--none of them have any care to remember being first or second loser) and I can certainly understand that being a major frustration as I would not want fakes either. So there's the pickle...stay with Macca and get a competitive car and fake trophies, or leave macca and risk being in a P.O.S. car for many seasons with a year or two of real opportunity to succeed--maybe. That's a big risk as without wins, he will just be another good driver that got some wins and an early championship (which some still question since it landed on his lap in a way, but who cares, a WDC is a WDC) but never was much more than that. Or, have genuine opportunity to win multiple titles and dozens and dozens wins/poles and be remembered as a driving legend...or something like that.

Finally, I will say this...if Macca continues to put up with these sorts of shenanigans, I will be very surprised. Yea, LH is a good driver, but he is in a really good car, and all they would need to do is find another good driver--which they most certainly can do without much trouble. Lewis on the other hand does not have such a simple luxury, and my suggestion would be to just shut up, drive the car, and leave the tech info and contract details behind closed doors in England, accept your fake trophies and make the most of your years. Thats a pretty fabulous life to have and few people ever have such an opportunity. Be thankful and shut up and drive. Nobody has to know the trophies are fake do they...? Well, oops, I guess they will because LH told everyone they were--just another lesson to keep your mouth shut and just drive the friggin car.

Again, my apologies for the length, I just wanted to contribute in some way since I really don't have much technically to offer this site.

Cheers-
Watching F1 since 1986.

RB7ate9
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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Chuckjr....I read it all and am inclined to agree. As I mentioned before, the actual data's relevance is almost a no-brainer (jeez, a rear wing with a higher AOA is slower on the straights?). The bigger issue is that the entire team has been betrayed by one of the two people that are supposed to represent them out on the track.

Something is rotten in the state of Mclaren and it may show in the coming races. I suspect Jenson Button is going to have a bit of a Mclaren resurgence.

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Shrieker
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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Trophies , contract and all it's BS. Lewis sees what Alonso gets at Ferrari and how it puts Alonso's mind at ease. It is a well known fact that Jenson overall isn't as good a driver as Lewis is. Lewis wants definite number one status, that's what it's all about and rightfully so. After Hungary he had a substantial gap over Button, Lewis probably increased his efforts to assert himself as no 1 within the team - to no avail. That must've pissed him as hell and doesn't take Einstein to understand why. And when he and the team made the wrong call with Button ending up in pole position the toys went out of the pram.

The team know full well, and Lewis knows full well that if he recieves the same kind of support Alonso does at Ferrari, Lewis would be in so much better shape in the title race. Somehow something is preventing that from happening, and it's not Macca's well known 'equal no1 drivers' principle. When you come to think of Hakkinen - Coulthard years, Hamilton's position within the team is even more dazzling. Even Hakkinen was given no 1 status but not Lewis. Compared to their respective competitors, Lewis is every bit as good as Hakkinen was, if not better.

So go figure...
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RB7ate9
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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Shrieker wrote:Trophies , contract and all it's BS. Lewis sees what Alonso gets at Ferrari and how it puts Alonso's mind at ease. It is a well known fact that Jenson overall isn't as good a driver as Lewis is. Lewis wants definite number one status, that's what it's all about and rightfully so. After Hungary he had a substantial gap over Button, Lewis probably increased his efforts to assert himself as no 1 within the team - to no avail. That must've pissed him as hell and doesn't take Einstein to understand why. And when he and the team made the wrong call with Button ending up in pole position the toys went out of the pram.

The team know full well, and Lewis knows full well that if he recieves the same kind of support Alonso does at Ferrari, Lewis would be in so much better shape in the title race. Somehow something is preventing that from happening, and it's not Macca's well known 'equal no1 drivers' principle. When you come to think of Hakkinen - Coulthard years, Hamilton's position within the team is even more dazzling. Even Hakkinen was given no 1 status but not Lewis. Compared to their respective competitors, Lewis is every bit as good as Hakkinen was, if not better.

So go figure...
All of that goes out the window when you post a pissy tweet of your team's race data. No matter how mad you are at the team, you keep it within the team. To paraphrase one of my favorite quotes from "Casino Royale":

"It's not about the racing; it's about knowing who you can trust."

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GTSpeedster
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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McLaren's Jenson Button said he was "disappointed" by team-mate Lewis Hamilton revealing confidential information about telemetry on Twitter.

Hamilton posted a picture of data from his and race winner Button's qualifying laps before the Belgian Grand Prix.

McLaren said it had not done "much damage" but, when asked how he felt about the incident, Button said: "I'll say disappointed.

"We work so hard to improve the car and to keep things like that private."

Hamilton was asked to take down the tweet by his team, which he did, but the information revealed ride heights as well as braking and acceleration rates.

McLaren will not be taking any disciplinary action against Hamilton, who was attempting to show the difference between a rear wing being used by Button against the one he had chosen for qualifying.

"I think it's done now," said Button, who qualified in pole position compared to Hamilton's seventh spot. "I don't think it's for me to be angry with Lewis because it's not a personal thing.

"The bit about him losing 0.6 secs on the straights isn't the bit that's important to me because he should be gaining it back in the corners he's got more downforce on. And I was 0.8 secs quicker in qualifying anyway.

"It's more the information that we work so hard to keep secret and private, that was the thing I didn't want to see on Twitter."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19474565

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raymondu999
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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Yeah I saw that yesterday too. Are tensions building in Team GB F1?
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Websta
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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I agree with what Shrieker said about why Hamilton is unhappy at McLaren, but what a stupid way to vent it on Twitter. I am a bit surprised that Hamilton does his own tweeting - I though most celebrities and athletes get someone else to manage that stuff.

Richard
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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CHT wrote:Does anyone know when was the last time a team telemetry chart was revealed by a driver?
See :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10557 for a similar chart from Monaco 2011

Scarbs says that one was left lying around, more careless than deliberate.

timbo
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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richard_leeds wrote:
CHT wrote:Does anyone know when was the last time a team telemetry chart was revealed by a driver?
See :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10557 for a similar chart from Monaco 2011

Scarbs says that one was left lying around, more careless than deliberate.
That one contained more info, e.g. KERS harvesting.

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Chuckjr
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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Shrieker wrote:Trophies , contract and all it's BS. Lewis sees what Alonso gets at Ferrari and how it puts Alonso's mind at ease. It is a well known fact that Jenson overall isn't as good a driver as Lewis is. Lewis wants definite number one status, that's what it's all about and rightfully so. After Hungary he had a substantial gap over Button, Lewis probably increased his efforts to assert himself as no 1 within the team - to no avail. That must've pissed him as hell and doesn't take Einstein to understand why. And when he and the team made the wrong call with Button ending up in pole position the toys went out of the pram.

The team know full well, and Lewis knows full well that if he recieves the same kind of support Alonso does at Ferrari, Lewis would be in so much better shape in the title race. Somehow something is preventing that from happening, and it's not Macca's well known 'equal no1 drivers' principle. When you come to think of Hakkinen - Coulthard years, Hamilton's position within the team is even more dazzling. Even Hakkinen was given no 1 status but not Lewis. Compared to their respective competitors, Lewis is every bit as good as Hakkinen was, if not better.

So go figure...
If it is just about being number one (and it may well be), he's not doing himself favors acting like this. 

Further, why would any organization, yet alone Macca, offer a man even higher status in the team after such antics as we have seen for a while now? Giving him even greater authority when he can't even handle the kind he has now would be poor judgement at best, and Macca may be a lot of things but stupid isn't one of them. Giving him number one would not only go against their adamant decades old assertion that they absolutely will not allow 1-2 status between drivers, but would be endorsing further antics from him. It's not going to happen. 

If he wants #1, he must go to another team. I don't see Frank Williams giving into a first and second driver set up, but Lotus and Sauber may though Lotus would lose KR as he would never be second to anyone IMO. 

This reminds me of 1996 when Schumacher asked Willie Webber (when he suggested Schumacher go to Ferrari), "why do I want to drive for the little red cars I keep passing on the track on my way to two world championships?" but that risk gave him unprecedented #1 at the empire none other than Ferrari and he made himself a legend because of it. 

One Lewis Hamilton may find himself posing a similar question, except now the cars are black or white. I think this is a real opportunity for him and it may not be a bad call to move on. He's just gotta learn to just trust his driving instincts, shut up, and get in the car and drive the s%*t out of it. At least then WE would know just how good he really is by his having to prove himself in cars that maybe are not the class of the field. if I were him I'd relish the opportunity to prove myself. It would shut up the ney sayers just like Schumacher did in 96, 97, when he was winning in cars that had ZERO business winning.
Watching F1 since 1986.

CHT
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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Does anyone know who is LH biggest financial backer in the sport? Like Santander to Alonso, PDVSA to Pastor

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example
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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I'm pretty sure Jenson developed that car with his, understeer, oversteer on the radio.
Lewis likes to share things with his fans on twitter. He has a lot of fans, and haters.

Macca is a big organisation, but they have such weak team principal it's not even funny.
They could have been leading both championships. We'll see how season ends.

LionKing
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Re: Telemetry chart - McLaren Spa 2012

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If Lewis wants number 1 position then he should earn it :)

So far during a duration of more than 2 and half seasons, Jenson has accumulated more points (+1) and podiums (+3) than Lewis. Lewis has more wins (+1).