Define: Tyre Grip

[amouzouris]

which page exactly?

[Jersey Tom]

which page exactly?

Should take you right to plysteer and conicity section which has some examples of non-zero Fy at SA = 0 (and camber = zero)

[DaveW]

I really doubt you design tires or any one of the other members does what you have described...this is my opinion which i am entitled to have...if however you really are engineering tires for a living then good for you....

Forgive me, amouzouris, but you have taken on at least four experienced vehicle dynamics professionals (some of whom have, perhaps, been just slightly unkind to you & your project). Worth listening to them, however.

[amouzouris]

Just for the record I have no problem admitting that i was wrong if I am indeed wrong...i will read the book in the link JT posted when i have time! (true..they were not polite and they were unkind..i received no apologies however..anw not everyone can like you)

[ubrben]

Just for the record I have no problem admitting that i was wrong if I am indeed wrong...i will read the book in the link JT posted when i have time! (true..they were not polite and they were unkind..i received no apologies however..anw not everyone can like you)

We were harsh without a doubt, but if you put yourself out there on the net without any specialist knowledge it's hardly surprising that there might be people with that specialist knowledge willing to call you on it.

Sorry if you felt offended. Having said that freedom of speech is important, freedom to not be offended isn't.

Ben

[amc]

I'm conscious of stepping in to the deep end, but...
A cylindrical 'tyre' with infinite 'stiffness' (Elastic Modulus) will never generate a lateral force; it has no <argh!>'grip'</argh!>
The same 'tyre' with limited 'stiffness' exhibited as solely conicity will show a lateral force exactly perpendicular to the forward direction. This is why a stationary tyre pushed sideways won't accelerate, (and therefore cars parked on cambered roads don't slide sideways off of them - Amoz - another example of 0 slip angle and lateral friction which JT mentioned earlier).

Purely theoretically, yes, zero slip angle > no resolved lateral force > no acceleration > constant velocity > no turning, and some of the graphs posted on this thread show this. But in the book JT posted there are a lot of 'approximately equal to' signs, and 'assumptions' still. So it's clear that tyre <argh!>grip</argh!> models rely on empirical data and cannot be modelled purely theoretically, nor is grip an exact science. (Hence the name 'tyre engineering').

Oh, and Ben:

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

So let's not quote the freedom of speech article selectively.

[ubrben]

Oh, and Ben:

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

So let's not quote the freedom of speech article selectively.

I wasn't quoting the UN article on Freedom of Speech, I was quoting my view on freedom of speech. The UN thing you've posted doesn't make a lot of practical sense. We're on a BB, if you're not allowed to interfere (intellectually at least) with someone's view you disgree with it's kind of pointless...

Ben

[amc]

Ah yes, I hadn't thought of it like that. Sorry.