Wing Designs of the past

[bodnarjw]

In 1999, F1 rear wings we beautiful creative works of art (much like today's fron wings). Does anyone have any true detail profiles of these setups. I can only get partial vies from photos etc. I basically want to use their designs as a starting point for my open wheel racer.

Thanks,
J

[beelsebob]

Sorry, I'm missing something. the 1999 style rear wings were all basically a two section curve. Some teams added a 3rd element above for high DF tracks. None of them were particularly exciting looking things.

[bodnarjw]

The third element for teh high DF tracks plus the wing near the diffuser and sometimes a mid plan wing add up to a multi wing stacked wing design that only ecently re-emerged in the multi plan front wings we are seeing. The aero of having a stacked wing only a couple of chord lengths away from each other is tricky business and not well modeled by simple potential flow solvers.

-J

[FW17]

Not sure if they had in 1999, but sure had in 1999.







Here is the 1999 wing

[flmkane]

That sidepod design almost looks like it's got undercuts!

[Tommy Cookers]

The third element for teh high DF tracks plus the wing near the diffuser and sometimes a mid plan wing add up to a multi wing stacked wing design that only ecently re-emerged in the multi plan front wings we are seeing. The aero of having a stacked wing only a couple of chord lengths away from each other is tricky business and not well modeled by simple potential flow solvers.

am I right to assume that 'stacked' wings were basically to get more wing area than the rulemakers envisaged ?
such wings are troubling to the aviation-minded (even considering the low Reynolds nos in F1 etc)

[timbo]

The third element for teh high DF tracks plus the wing near the diffuser and sometimes a mid plan wing add up to a multi wing stacked wing design that only ecently re-emerged in the multi plan front wings we are seeing. The aero of having a stacked wing only a couple of chord lengths away from each other is tricky business and not well modeled by simple potential flow solvers.

am I right to assume that 'stacked' wings were basically to get more wing area than the rulemakers envisaged ?
such wings are troubling to the aviation-minded (even considering the low Reynolds nos in F1 etc)

Sure thing.
On tracks like Monaco L/D means nothing. You need to maximize L (or anti-L if you like) at all costs. Rememeber rhinoceros Arrows car?

[bodnarjw]

WilliamsF1, Thank you for posting the pictures. Those are exactly the types of wings I'm talking about. I'm currently helping my Dad design a wing for his racecar. Rule limitations set a horizontal rectangle 22" long by 15 inches high. Span of the wing is 50" Total height can not be more than 36" inches off the ground. No more than 3 elements allowed. The cars are short track oval cars. The tracks are tight corners with long straights. All cars struggle because they get loose (oversteer) through the apex and coming out of the corner and the 850 HP and strict tire rules only compound the problem. I'm looking for a MAX downforce. CL is significantly more important than CD right now. We are working on stremlining, front wing, and a limited diffuser (rule limitations). The area that is wide open and unexploited is a STRONG rear wing. I could do a typical three element setup with a main element and two following flaps that go from zero degree main wing to 35 degree mid flap and 70 degree final flap. That is what most people are doing. But I could also do a dual element standard configuration then put a stacked wing in the top fron corner of the rectangle.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY HIGH QUALITY PROFILE DRAWINGS OF A F1 STACKED WING CONFIGURATION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

[stefan_]

Hope it helps. Right click - view image for bigger size.

[CMSMJ1]

I would suggest that perhaps F1 wings are nt the answer - a short track oval car is not going to be designed to take any corner at 100mph or more..which these wings on F1 cars are.

You need a barn door wing - something so brutal that it will cost a lot of drag but will get you the df you need - so, perhaps have a look at the 1985 cars..the Toleman springs to mind

Anyways, sounds like a great project - lets have a look at what you are working with! =D>

[wesley123]

a few pics of what runs in the current class of the series might be useful too to see what we're looking at.

[flynfrog]

I would suggest that perhaps F1 wings are nt the answer - a short track oval car is not going to be designed to take any corner at 100mph or more..which these wings on F1 cars are.

lap speed over 145mph on .5 mile tracks id guess they were well over 100 mph in the corners

[Tommy Cookers]

the 'boxkite wing' above is also showing a substantial centripetal force and anti-overturning moment ?
operating at a Beta angle of attack around 45deg and significant dynamic pressure

[stefan_]

Better view from the top.

[NoDivergence]

WilliamsF1, Thank you for posting the pictures. Those are exactly the types of wings I'm talking about. I'm currently helping my Dad design a wing for his racecar. Rule limitations set a horizontal rectangle 22" long by 15 inches high. Span of the wing is 50" Total height can not be more than 36" inches off the ground. No more than 3 elements allowed. The cars are short track oval cars. The tracks are tight corners with long straights. All cars struggle because they get loose (oversteer) through the apex and coming out of the corner and the 850 HP and strict tire rules only compound the problem. I'm looking for a MAX downforce. CL is significantly more important than CD right now. We are working on stremlining, front wing, and a limited diffuser (rule limitations). The area that is wide open and unexploited is a STRONG rear wing. I could do a typical three element setup with a main element and two following flaps that go from zero degree main wing to 35 degree mid flap and 70 degree final flap. That is what most people are doing. But I could also do a dual element standard configuration then put a stacked wing in the top fron corner of the rectangle.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY HIGH QUALITY PROFILE DRAWINGS OF A F1 STACKED WING CONFIGURATION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

I did a project for a 4 credit course for a dual element rear wing in 2D. I found that actually aggressive angles of flap deflection was best between 40 and 45 degrees (for max CL, you get separation which showed in the drag values). I was getting quite good sectional CL values