2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

[bonjon1979]

Well looking at those years then comparing the car they had when the season started they definitely sandbagged...
RB6 and RB7 is great examples of that.

Even if they had done identical times as the top runner in season tests it would still be a form of sandbagging when you can pull out a second from nowhere come AUS.

Indeed, they have but never to the extent that we apparently saw this year. There's sandbagging and then there's sandbagging. 2.4 seconds is more than sandbagging.

In Spain 2010 Red Bull were 7 tenths off in testing and 7 tenths quicker in qualifying come race weekend. An overall sandbaggage (TM) of 1.4 seconds. There are some saying that Red bull are just over half a second quicker so that would mean they're keeping 3 seconds in hand. This would be completely different from any other year and I really don't buy that's what's happening. There'll be a few tenths in it, nothing more.

[godlameroso]

Even though the cars are faster than last year I doubt they're as fast as they were in 2010 or 2011 and they barely broke into the 19's

[Artur Craft]

Not entirely correct. You deliberately left out red bull which vent much faster in the race weekend.

Because RBR sandbagged way too much. It's highly likely that they could lap even on 1.18 high on winter if they pushed

And the cause why winter testing times almost always are faster than quali times in may: mostly temperature affecting...
Air density
The fastest laps this winter were probably made with an air temperature of about 13C. That translates into about 3% extra air density for the aero to work and likely over 4% extra oxygen density for the engine to burn, after accounting for likely humidity levels, compared to last may.

The thread you opened is pretty good and explains to people what is at play here

Downforce/Drag is a depends on: wing or surface area, coefficient of lift/drag, air density and speed(squared)

If you double air density, you double downforce/drag

In a track where less drag is more benefitial, like Monza, hotter temperatures will improve laptime(other things neglected). However in a track like Barcelona, where more downforce/drag will be more benefitial, colder temperatures will improve laptime

This last week, there were hours in which the temp was 5ºC(very early morning) and, at this temperature, air density is : 1.2690 kg·m−3

During the Spanish GP week, it's common for temperatures to reach 30ºC, in which air density is: 1.1644 kg·m−3

An increase of 9% in air density, and therefore, 9% in downforce drag

Even from 15C to 30C, there is an increase of over 5% in aerodynamics forces

So, during testings, the cars have much more downforce than during the summer times of the calendar

[dren]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/03/a ... a-f1-test/

[Nando]

Indeed, they have but never to the extent that we apparently saw this year. There's sandbagging and then there's sandbagging. 2.4 seconds is more than sandbagging.

Yea this is probably what you would call unintentional sandbagging where they probably did have some problems.

[RicerDude]

Even though the cars are faster than last year I doubt they're as fast as they were in 2010 or 2011 and they barely broke into the 19's

2011 pole time was a 1:20.981 (Mark Webber) and 2010 pole time was a 1:19.995 (Mark Webber).

[pocketmoon]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/03/a ... a-f1-test/

"The tyre degradation for the Mercedes and the Ferrari looks quite similar,"

They don't to me. Merc fall off is visibly less than Ferrari.


p.s Gary Anderson's promised grid prediction for Aus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055

1 Rosberg 1:19.730
2 Button 1:19.764
3 Vettel 1:19.797
4 Hamilton 1:19.886
5 Raikkonen 1:19.968
6 Alonso 1:20.004
etc

[godlameroso]

Even though the cars are faster than last year I doubt they're as fast as they were in 2010 or 2011 and they barely broke into the 19's

2011 pole time was a 1:20.981 (Mark Webber) and 2010 pole time was a 1:19.995 (Mark Webber).

2010 is when F1 cars had the most downforce in the last 4 years, so I doubt anyone will break into the 19's.

[tomazy]

Comparison of the best testing time and last years qualy:

team...........qualy............testing........difirence
McLaren.....1:21.707........1:21.444........-0.263
Williams.....1:22:285........1:22.305........+0.020
Ferrari.......1:22.302........1:20.494........-1.808
Lotus.........1:22.424........1:21.658........-0.766
Sauber........1:22.533........1:21.541........-0,992
Mercedes....1:22.887........1:20.130........-2.752
RedBull.......1:22.884........1:22.514 ........-0.370
FI.............1:23.125........1:21.627........-1.498
STR...........1:23.265........1:23.233........-0.032
Caterham....1:25.277........1:23.115........-2.162
Marussia.....1:26.582........1:23.167........-3.415

I just have to much time on my hands xD

[Ganxxta]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/03/a ... a-f1-test/

"The tyre degradation for the Mercedes and the Ferrari looks quite similar,"

They don't to me. Merc fall off is visibly less than Ferrari.


p.s Gary Anderson's promised grid prediction for Aus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055

1 Rosberg 1:19.730
2 Button 1:19.764
3 Vettel 1:19.797
4 Hamilton 1:19.886
5 Raikkonen 1:19.968
6 Alonso 1:20.004
etc

Prediction to the .001 second? Sorry but thats ridiculous, even if its Gary Anderson...

[Formula one fan]

Well looking at those years then comparing the car they had when the season started they definitely sandbagged...
RB6 and RB7 is great examples of that.

Even if they had done identical times as the top runner in season tests it would still be a form of sandbagging when you can pull out a second from nowhere come AUS.

I just don't buy that RB are sandbagging as much as everyone says they are. Don't get me wrong I am a huge RB fan and hope that they are but I just can't see what they have to gain buy intentionally being 2-3 sec off the pace at some points during testing. Maybe someone can explain this to me. Also the last day of testing they did have some problems that kept them off track more than they planned.

[Maelstrom]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/03/a ... a-f1-test/

"The tyre degradation for the Mercedes and the Ferrari looks quite similar,"

They don't to me. Merc fall off is visibly less than Ferrari.


p.s Gary Anderson's promised grid prediction for Aus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055

1 Rosberg 1:19.730
2 Button 1:19.764
3 Vettel 1:19.797
4 Hamilton 1:19.886
5 Raikkonen 1:19.968
6 Alonso 1:20.004
etc

He thinks Rosberg would outqualify Hamilton?

[timbo]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/03/a ... a-f1-test/

"The tyre degradation for the Mercedes and the Ferrari looks quite similar,"

They don't to me. Merc fall off is visibly less than Ferrari.


p.s Gary Anderson's promised grid prediction for Aus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055

1 Rosberg 1:19.730
2 Button 1:19.764
3 Vettel 1:19.797
4 Hamilton 1:19.886
5 Raikkonen 1:19.968
6 Alonso 1:20.004
etc

Prediction to the .001 second? Sorry but thats ridiculous, even if its Gary Anderson...

Oh yeah, it's a joke.

[timbo]

Comparison of the best testing time and last years qualy:

team...........qualy............testing........difirence
McLaren.....1:21.707........1:21.444........-0.263
Williams.....1:22:285........1:22.305........+0.020
Ferrari.......1:22.302........1:20.494........-1.808
Lotus.........1:22.424........1:21.658........-0.766
Sauber........1:22.533........1:21.541........-0,992
Mercedes....1:22.887........1:20.130........-2.752
RedBull.......1:22.884........1:22.514 ........-0.370
FI.............1:23.125........1:21.627........-1.498
STR...........1:23.265........1:23.233........-0.032
Caterham....1:25.277........1:23.115........-2.162
Marussia.....1:26.582........1:23.167........-3.415

I just have to much time on my hands xD

This actually is very interesting info. And shows that calculations of Gary Anderson and whoever tries to get exact times from what we've seen in testing don't mean anything when it comes down to actual racing. The average absolute difference between testing and racing times is 1.3 seconds. That is your precision.
If anything we should take Gary's time and add a second of variance.

[Vasconia]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/03/a ... a-f1-test/

"The tyre degradation for the Mercedes and the Ferrari looks quite similar,"

They don't to me. Merc fall off is visibly less than Ferrari.


p.s Gary Anderson's promised grid prediction for Aus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055

1 Rosberg 1:19.730
2 Button 1:19.764
3 Vettel 1:19.797
4 Hamilton 1:19.886
5 Raikkonen 1:19.968
6 Alonso 1:20.004
etc

Mehh, it would be not a surprise to me to see Nico on pole but I dont expect to see Button so high, Mclaren needs more time to understand its car and Jenson is not particularly fast in qualy. Moreover, Ferrari seems to have a better car this season, mainly on Saturdays so Alonso could qualify higher.

Anyway, it will be very close, so many good cars and drivers in only a few tenths, Australia will be tremendously interesting.