Pirelli 2013

[bhall]

[strad]

Why the marketing exposure if we know that their road and race tire developments are wholly separate ?

Come on Tom...I've come to respect your opinion,,,even thought about consuting you before buying these Michelins,,BUT..I know you know better than to equate what the FIA madate with the requirements for Pirelli street tires...no matter what some ad aimed at women says. bhallg

[Dragonfly]

When (and if) I see something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MEG88C3Mp0
today, I'll know F1 is on the right track.

[abw]

When (and if) I see something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MEG88C3Mp0
today, I'll know F1 is on the right track.

That's some kickass racing, for sure. Closest thing it reminds me of in recent years is Raikkonen v Schumacher, Spa 2012, laps 32-35. But still... not the same.

[flmkane]

When (and if) I see something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MEG88C3Mp0
today, I'll know F1 is on the right track.

That's some kickass racing, for sure. Closest thing it reminds me of in recent years is Raikkonen v Schumacher, Spa 2012, laps 32-35. But still... not the same.

Unfortunately the tyres would die, so current drivers would never race like that.

[Cam]

Why the marketing exposure if we know that their road and race tire developments are wholly separate ?

Come on Tom...I've come to respect your opinion,,,even thought about consuting you before buying these Michelins,,BUT..I know you know better than to equate what the FIA madate with the requirements for Pirelli street tires...no matter what some ad aimed at women says. bhallg http://s22.photobucket.com/user/STRAD2/ ... w.gif.html

Problem is strad, you may be able to form a distinction, the average punter simply does not.

If you want more proof - Pirelli admit that their tyres are designed for 'occasional race track use' - yep, that's what we've seen in F1 alright

[MOWOG]

First..If you say you wouldn't buy Pirelli's for your road car because of the fact that they supply a tire to F1 that degrades...just as mandated. Somehow you figure they are going to produce a similar for the public...well..you are just beyond all help and you should not be in charge of buying tires.

Had you but taken the time to read and understand my post, you would have seen that I am suggesting Pirelli have made a huge marketing blunder if they think that being the tire supplier to F1 is good advertising for their company. Surely they wouldn't be doing this if they didn't expect it to boost sales to the general public, would they? What other possible reason would they have to do this? Altruism? Love of the sport??

They have allowed the FIA to maneuver them into an untenable position, which is to have the entire racing world watch their race tires self destruct on track. Yeah, that's great advertising, that is. Doesn't every company dream of having their products greeted by hoots of derision from their customer base?

C'mon. Get off your high horse. Pirelli have shot themselves in the foot and are too in thrall to their vaunted status as the exclusive tire supplier to Formula One to take reasonable measures to stop the bleeding. It was actually my wife who commented during Sunday's race that Pirelli is doing themselves no good with the buying public. I'm not smart enough to think of this stuff myself.

[strad]

The P-Zeros on my Cobra perform admirably..do they wear out quicker than a harder,,say,,Continental..yeah they do but the Conti won't take corners like the Pirelli.
Wear is a trade off as Tom will agree I'm sure, but even though he doesn't care for Pirellis. I'm also sure he's not about to accuse them of making flat out shitty tires either.
The tire they are making for F1 must embarrass at least some of the Pirelli top brass and somewhere in the chain of command someones head probably rolled for not realizing the advertising fiasco they got themselves into and all they can do is hope for at least some intelligence on the part of their potential customers.
I guess that's why i defend them a bit..They make a fine product that has served me well over the years ..P7s on a 67 Vette, and P-Zeros on a 04 SVT Cobra .

[Cam]

I feel sorry for them too, a bit. Yes, they've done exactly what was asked, but what a stupid thing to agree to in the first place:

FIA: Pirelli, we want you to make tires that don't last - so it spices it up a bit, evens out the pack so to speak
Pirelli: Umm, you know that goes against everything common sense suggests
FIA: Not at all, we say what common sense is in F1
Pirelli: Oh okay then, how can I loose.

Pirelli can shout out 'we were told to make them like this' all they want, they could also have said 'no, this is bad news'. They agreed, took the money and now must answer for it.

Whether they take a hit on commercial/retail sales or not, we'll never know. They'll never admit if they did. Even if they made a 20% gain - was it worth it for all the flack they take?

Hopefully actual common sense prevails and they stabilise the tires and let the cars race flat out. Seeing a hobbled F1 car is just so... disappointing.

[Huntresa]

When (and if) I see something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MEG88C3Mp0
today, I'll know F1 is on the right track.

Yeah woho electronic racing, amazing to watch, cmon dude atleast link something earlier or not from that year.

[flmkane]

When (and if) I see something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MEG88C3Mp0
today, I'll know F1 is on the right track.

Yeah woho electronic racing, amazing to watch, cmon dude atleast link something earlier or not from that year.

Yes indeed, amazing to watch. A three way deathmatch for the lead, with Senna using precise and daredevil defensive driving to hold back the all conquering Williams of Alain Prost, with Schumacher hounding them both. Senna would never be able to drive so beautifully with the current smelted cheese Pirellis and we would have been robbed of an awe inspiring threeway duel.

Who cares about the electronics. THAT was a battle!

[MOWOG]

Apparently, all of our grousing has had SOME effect on the PTB at Pirelli.

From GrandPrix.com:

Pirelli drops soft tyre for Bahrain

Pirelli has decided against taking its soft tyre compound to this weekend's Bahrain grand prix. Before the season began, F1's official tyre supplier announced that it would take its hard and soft tyres to the island Kingdom. "This is designed to ensure plenty of speed in qualifying coupled with the durability needed for the race," Pirelli said in a pre-season statement.

But the Italian marque has now announced that, in fact, the hard and medium compound tyres will be raced this weekend. The news follows the Chinese grand prix, where Pirelli was heavily criticised when the soft compound lasted only a few laps at the Shanghai circuit.

Pirelli said on Monday that "tyre degradation (is) expected to be reasonably high (in Bahrain), which is why the two hardest compounds of the range have been nominated." Paul Hembery commented: "It's one of the most demanding tracks of the year for the tyres, mostly because of the high ambient and track temperatures."

So.....did Bernie Eccleston corner Hembry down at Ye Olde Cocke & Bulle club? Did Jean Todt send Hembry a Tweet in the middle of the night? Did the minions of the various teams bring pressure to bear? Or did someone in the Pirelli marketing department finally awake from his long winter's nap and realize the extent of the disaster enveloping the company?

In any event, we are now presented with the prospect of drivers driving, instead of feathering their throttles like they were participants in the Mobil Fuel Economy Challenge!

[WhiteBlue]

FIA: Pirelli, we want you to make tires that don't last - so it spices it up a bit, evens out the pack so to speak
Pirelli: Umm, you know that goes against everything common sense suggests
FIA: Not at all, we say what common sense is in F1
Pirelli: Oh okay then, how can I loose.

You could not be farer away from reality with your fictitious exchange. The FiA has no interest in tyres that are going to ribbons after one or two laps. The brief for the tyres came from Bernie and was supported by the F1 commission which is dominated by the teams. They wanted entertainment by multiple strategies and pit stop drama. Todt just kept out of this discussion and concentrated on the engine battle over the last four years. I don't know why people always bash the FiA for everything that goes wrong in the sport.

The Todt adminstration has shown a remarkable restrain and neutrality in their dealing with the F1 rules. They let Bernie and the teams do whatever they want and police what evolves from their decisions. If there is one consistent policy applied by the FiA since 2009 it is the policy of supporting safety, affordability and sustainability and letting the F1 commission work out the controversial decisions.

IMO it is high times that Pirelli are reversing the soft tyre policy a bit. It has gone over the top and the McLaren radio exchange at he last race was giving ample proof of that. If a racing driver has to ask - as Button did last Sunday - if he can fight a rival for track position something has gone wrong.

It may be acceptable to manage tyres in some segments of the race but if drivers generally cannot decide by their race craft how to deal with tactical situations the thing is out of control. This is not the F1 we want to see. Pirelli should back off until we have a lot less marbles and drivers can generally race each other on most of the track without tyre concerns. If that means we go back to just one stop or no stop I would not care. I want to see racing and no tyre saving contest.

[hollus]

...It's a meritocracy and if ya can't claw your way up you deserve to wither and die.
I want the cream to rise to the top..not standardized boredom.

Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Vettel, Button. That's all WC since 2005. The cream is raising to the top.

I also wonder if the tires are being criticized because they are the bit that gets changed in the car. Speed limiter aborted passes, for example, are not taking as much flak and some how are considered a setup choice...

We've have soccer for many years. I remember the time when the most likely result in a soccer game was 0-0... luckily the sport managed to correct that.
F1 was similar quite often, I've been as loyal a fan as there are, and the highlights are great, but I know how often I fell asleep during races in the nineties and noughties. Have we forgotten Coulthard vs Bernoldi? Or, let me be controversial, Alonso vs Petrov? That last one robbed us of a fantastic race to the last corner of the season, with Alonso risking all or nothing to try and pass Rosberg... and Webber then having to pass some cousins, then Petrov, and Rosberg, which would have forced Alonso to move further up... (for the record, I believe there was no winning scenario for Alonso in that race barring a Red Bull crash).

Now we are getting basketball, with passing a matter of time and inevitable, and the game long average being very visible. Kinda good for a change, but that said, I hope it doesn't last too long. Soccer has more following than basketball for a reason.

P.S: Is just me, or do the same people praise both Monza 1971 and Jarama 1981 as examples of how it should be?

[Cam]

FIA: Pirelli, we want you to make tires that don't last - so it spices it up a bit, evens out the pack so to speak
Pirelli: Umm, you know that goes against everything common sense suggests
FIA: Not at all, we say what common sense is in F1
Pirelli: Oh okay then, how can I loose.

You could not be farer away from reality with your fictitious exchange. The FiA has no interest in tyres that are going to ribbons after one or two laps. The brief for the tyres came from Bernie and was supported by the F1 commission which is dominated by the teams. They wanted entertainment by multiple strategies and pit stop drama. Todt just kept out of this discussion and concentrated on the engine battle over the last four years. I don't know why people always bash the FiA for everything that goes wrong in the sport.

The Todt adminstration has shown a remarkable restrain and neutrality in their dealing with the F1 rules. They let Bernie and the teams do whatever they want and police what evolves from their decisions. If there is one consistent policy applied by the FiA since 2009 it is the policy of supporting safety, affordability and sustainability and letting the F1 commission work out the controversial decisions.

IMO it is high times that Pirelli are reversing the soft tyre policy a bit. It has gone over the top and the McLaren radio exchange at he last race was giving ample proof of that. If a racing driver has to ask - as Button did last Sunday - if he can fight a rival for track position something has gone wrong.

It may be acceptable to manage tyres in some segments of the race but if drivers generally cannot decide by their race craft how to deal with tactical situations the thing is out of control. This is not the F1 we want to see. Pirelli should back off until we have a lot less marbles and drivers can generally race each other on most of the track without tyre concerns. If that means we go back to just one stop or no stop I would not care. I want to see racing and no tyre saving contest.

I know see why bhallg2k has his moments . That's okay WB - I was been facetious - obviously we have no idea what was officially word for word agreed too. I drew my facetious conclusions based on news reports and driver/team interviews. Also, I can see bits of tires strewn all over the track, put that together with tires that forced teams to pit after a handful of laps, no action in qualifying and you can see where I was coming from.

It has gone over the top and the McLaren radio exchange at he last race was giving ample proof of that. If a racing driver has to ask - as Button did last Sunday - if he can fight a rival for track position something has gone wrong.

So you agree, something has gone wrong. But, as I said above, Pirelli did exactly what was ask - didn't they? Who asked them to do it? The FIA. So either Pirelli has exactly supplied what was specified or someone is lying. My 'fictitious' (facetious - lost on you apparently, apologies) exchange happened in some form that made Pirelli take that path and be happy to do so.

It may have been fictitious, but it's probably very close to the truth.