Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

[RicerDude]

The design on the side is different this is from earlier in the year.

[gray41]

So the car could be more silver and black, less green.

[Richard]

I was pointing out that a team were trying to hi-jack a well known term, and use it to describe themselves. I also pointed out that even McLaren tried the same thing. Refer to the FOS when Auto Unions and Mercs ran together.......the entire collection was properly described as "Silver Arrows".

The etymology is vague with most phrases, its hard to pin down who first used it. It does appear that it was used by both pre-war, they were both funded by the Nazi government in a combined motorsport initiative. Also cars in those days were painted in national colours, not team colours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Arrows

However the usage post-war refers to Merc because Auto Union (or Audi) didn't participate in GP racing.

Anyway the "Silver Arrows" thing smells to me like "Lotus". They are both F1 teams owned by the OEM and someone from PR slapped on a badge to evoke the mythology of arrows or insects. That's where the pedigree ends, in reality they're still the teams from Brackley and Enstone, not Stuttgart nor Hethel.

[Cocles]

Anyway the "Silver Arrows" thing smells to me like "Lotus". They are both F1 teams owned by the OEM and someone from PR slapped on a badge to evoke the mythology of arrows or insects. That's where the pedigree ends, in reality they're still the teams from Brackley and Enstone, not Stuttgart nor Hethel.

To reach that conclusion, you are selectively ignoring that one team actually represents its marque while the other doesn't.

Richard, are we really all going to beat this dead horse AGAIN? As the mod, I'm surprised you're the one opening this can of worms, since you're the one who's going to have to get it closed again. You know you created an abyss thread for what you just wrote, right?

[Richard]

I'm saying that the term is dates from pre-war era when all German cars raced in silver, so no argument to be had there.

The current incarnation of "silver arrows" is PR hype, I really can't see why people get so worked up about it other than fanboy myopia.

[Cocles]

The current incarnation of "silver arrows" is PR hype, I really can't see why people get so worked up about it other than fanboy myopia.

You don't understand why Merc fans gets annoyed when you tell them that their team's cars are just a PR stunt and not real "silver arrows"?

You're joking, right?

[Richard]

I didn't say the team was PR hype, the team is long established in F1 under various brand names, and their cars seem to be doing rather well at the moment.

My fanboy comment refers to the passions (and misinformation) triggered by the mention of the Silver Arrows.

[Pup]

For his next trick, Richard will tell you that Schumacher's return was a publicity stunt.

[Mika1]

I was pointing out that a team were trying to hi-jack a well known term, and use it to describe themselves. I also pointed out that even McLaren tried the same thing. Refer to the FOS when Auto Unions and Mercs ran together.......the entire collection was properly described as "Silver Arrows".

The etymology is vague with most phrases, its hard to pin down who first used it. It does appear that it was used by both pre-war, they were both funded by the Nazi government in a combined motorsport initiative. Also cars in those days were painted in national colours, not team colours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Arrows

However the usage post-war refers to Merc because Auto Union (or Audi) didn't participate in GP racing.

Anyway the "Silver Arrows" thing smells to me like "Lotus". They are both F1 teams owned by the OEM and someone from PR slapped on a badge to evoke the mythology of arrows or insects. That's where the pedigree ends, in reality they're still the teams from Brackley and Enstone, not Stuttgart nor Hethel.

Daimler(Stuttgart) backs the Mercedes AMG F1 team and a part of the F1 team works in Stuttgart, if there is one team that can claim the name ''silver arrows'' (I prefer Silberpfeil), then it's Mercedes AMG.

[FoxHound]

I didn't say the team was PR hype, the team is long established in F1 under various brand names, and their cars seem to be doing rather well at the moment.

My fanboy comment refers to the passions (and misinformation) triggered by the mention of the Silver Arrows.

Why would they performing so well at present Richard?
Surely because the parent company(Daimler) have the appetite and desire to attempt to succeed. Why else would they be there? You don't get good PR by finishing 10th.

[Richard]

For the avoidance of doubt, the term "Silver Arrows" is a brand and branding is a PR exercise. It has no impact on the design or performance of the car, although one might say that it might help whip up enthusiasm to motivate the team.

Clearly the 'Silver Arrows" brand is too emotive, so lets get back to topic.

[FoxHound]

Richard,

Mercedes-AMG is the the brand. Silver is a by-product of this association to the brand. "Silver arrows" is a legend based on this by-product of the brand. Nowhere have Mercedes branded any specific car a silver arrow.
They can be referred to as silver arrows, but it's non specific.

You say it could whip up enthusiasm for the team. But it also comes with some rather heavy strings attached.

The point here is that when Mercedes returned officially, as their own entity, what other colour/shade would they douse their cars in other than silver? It is ubiquitous to Mercedes, synonymous even.

If Audi turn up one day with silver cars, fair dinkum. But would they have the same stake in claiming to be the silver arrows?
Maybe it's worthy of its own thread rather than posting here, but in all fairness this does relate directly to the team.

[Richard]

I'm not disputing that Mercedes traditionally use grey/silver.

To quote Lauda "a new look brings new motivation." Sounds like PR to me

[bhall]

I seriously can't believe this is an issue.

FIA Public Relations World Championship would be just as accurate, because this whole thing is largely just one big PR stunt. All of it. (It's why there's writing all over the cars.)

[GrizzleBoy]

That's what three weeks of no F1 can do to the fans.

I'm sure nobody will care after Saturday/Sunday