Lotus E21 Renault

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Blackout
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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So Lotus was nowhere in Canada ? yes and no and it wasn't necessarily related to the car's speed
-Grosjean was easily fast on one lap pace in Friday despite having one of the worst top speeds (so they were probably managing the engine) while Raikkonen was facing some problems related to the brakes.
-it was raining during the qualy and the E21 has always been weak in those conditions. In addition to that Grosjean had a yellow flag during Q3 and rain
-track temp was low all the weekend
-Raikkonen had problems with the Kers/the brakes again during the race and his and fuel consumption was excessive so he had to reduce engine speed or mixture...
And Canada is way less abrasive than most of the other tracks so Lotus's advantage against other cars like the RB9 and the W04 is smaller there.
So the car is probably still as fast as before. They just faced too many problems, like in Monaco.

Huntresa
Huntresa
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Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Kansas wrote:
Huntresa wrote:
Kansas wrote:i think they should revert back to pelican nose cone......

Dude, atleast think before posting...
dude, at least provide your reasoning on why you think differently or dont comment at all ROFL.
You mean like you did ?

Kansas
Kansas
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Joined: 01 Feb 2013, 03:53

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Blackout wrote:So Lotus was nowhere in Canada ? yes and no and it wasn't necessarily related to the car's speed
-Grosjean was easily fast on one lap pace in Friday despite having one of the worst top speeds (so they were probably managing the engine) while Raikkonen was facing some problems related to the brakes.
-it was raining during the qualy and the E21 has always been weak in those conditions. In addition to that Grosjean had a yellow flag during Q3 and rain
-track temp was low all the weekend
-Raikkonen had problems with the Kers/the brakes again during the race and his and fuel consumption was excessive so he had to reduce engine speed or mixture...
And Canada is way less abrasive than most of the other tracks so Lotus's advantage against other cars like the RB9 and the W04 is smaller there.
So the car is probably still as fast as before. They just faced too many problems, like in Monaco.
Fps was never representative. qualifying likely to hit 1.12+++ considering the lap time of race pace at the beginning when Vettel was clocking 1.19+++.

Btw, how are they gonna solve the problem to switch on the tyre on wet or cooler condition?? add more downforce?? Silverstone has more chances for a wet weekend than dry.

Huntresa
Huntresa
54
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Kansas wrote:
Blackout wrote:So Lotus was nowhere in Canada ? yes and no and it wasn't necessarily related to the car's speed
-Grosjean was easily fast on one lap pace in Friday despite having one of the worst top speeds (so they were probably managing the engine) while Raikkonen was facing some problems related to the brakes.
-it was raining during the qualy and the E21 has always been weak in those conditions. In addition to that Grosjean had a yellow flag during Q3 and rain
-track temp was low all the weekend
-Raikkonen had problems with the Kers/the brakes again during the race and his and fuel consumption was excessive so he had to reduce engine speed or mixture...
And Canada is way less abrasive than most of the other tracks so Lotus's advantage against other cars like the RB9 and the W04 is smaller there.
So the car is probably still as fast as before. They just faced too many problems, like in Monaco.
Fps was never representative. qualifying likely to hit 1.12+++ considering the lap time of race pace at the beginning when Vettel was clocking 1.19+++.

Btw, how are they gonna solve the problem to switch on the tyre on wet or cooler condition?? add more downforce?? Silverstone has more chances for a wet weekend than dry.
They prob cant slove that issue cause its inherent within the car, it was the same last year.

Kansas
Kansas
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Joined: 01 Feb 2013, 03:53

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Huntresa wrote:
Kansas wrote:
Blackout wrote:So Lotus was nowhere in Canada ? yes and no and it wasn't necessarily related to the car's speed
-Grosjean was easily fast on one lap pace in Friday despite having one of the worst top speeds (so they were probably managing the engine) while Raikkonen was facing some problems related to the brakes.
-it was raining during the qualy and the E21 has always been weak in those conditions. In addition to that Grosjean had a yellow flag during Q3 and rain
-track temp was low all the weekend
-Raikkonen had problems with the Kers/the brakes again during the race and his and fuel consumption was excessive so he had to reduce engine speed or mixture...
And Canada is way less abrasive than most of the other tracks so Lotus's advantage against other cars like the RB9 and the W04 is smaller there.
So the car is probably still as fast as before. They just faced too many problems, like in Monaco.
Fps was never representative. qualifying likely to hit 1.12+++ considering the lap time of race pace at the beginning when Vettel was clocking 1.19+++.

Btw, how are they gonna solve the problem to switch on the tyre on wet or cooler condition?? add more downforce?? Silverstone has more chances for a wet weekend than dry.
They prob cant slove that issue cause its inherent within the car, it was the same last year.
more downforce wouldn't hurt. Struggle to understand from the outlook how Rbr managed to squeeze so much downforce from similar ramp style coanda. Even Torro Rosso has improved dramatically after fitting with similar coanda design as rbr and Lotus.

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Blackout
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Kansas wrote:
Blackout wrote:So Lotus was nowhere in Canada ? yes and no and it wasn't necessarily related to the car's speed
-Grosjean was easily fast on one lap pace in Friday despite having one of the worst top speeds (so they were probably managing the engine) while Raikkonen was facing some problems related to the brakes.
-it was raining during the qualy and the E21 has always been weak in those conditions. In addition to that Grosjean had a yellow flag during Q3 and rain
-track temp was low all the weekend
-Raikkonen had problems with the Kers/the brakes again during the race and his and fuel consumption was excessive so he had to reduce engine speed or mixture...
And Canada is way less abrasive than most of the other tracks so Lotus's advantage against other cars like the RB9 and the W04 is smaller there.
So the car is probably still as fast as before. They just faced too many problems, like in Monaco.
Fps was never representative. qualifying likely to hit 1.12+++ considering the lap time of race pace at the beginning when Vettel was clocking 1.19+++.
FPs were always been representative this year. Atleast for Lotus and some other teams. One must follow them closely.

Lets go back to the topic.

Kansas
Kansas
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Joined: 01 Feb 2013, 03:53

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Blackout wrote:
Kansas wrote:
Blackout wrote:So Lotus was nowhere in Canada ? yes and no and it wasn't necessarily related to the car's speed
-Grosjean was easily fast on one lap pace in Friday despite having one of the worst top speeds (so they were probably managing the engine) while Raikkonen was facing some problems related to the brakes.
-it was raining during the qualy and the E21 has always been weak in those conditions. In addition to that Grosjean had a yellow flag during Q3 and rain
-track temp was low all the weekend
-Raikkonen had problems with the Kers/the brakes again during the race and his and fuel consumption was excessive so he had to reduce engine speed or mixture...
And Canada is way less abrasive than most of the other tracks so Lotus's advantage against other cars like the RB9 and the W04 is smaller there.
So the car is probably still as fast as before. They just faced too many problems, like in Monaco.
Fps was never representative. qualifying likely to hit 1.12+++ considering the lap time of race pace at the beginning when Vettel was clocking 1.19+++.
FPs were always been representative this year. Atleast for Lotus and some other teams. One must follow them closely.

Lets go back to the topic.
many times lotus did well in Fp2 on single lap pace, but merc or rbr always emerged on top in Q3 at the end. How is that representative?? If you are talking about long run pace, then yes. However, Lotus was 1seconds/ lap slower than ferrari and rbr on friday's long run already.

Indicating the sign of catastrophe.

Huntresa
Huntresa
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Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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many times lotus did well in Fp2 on single lap pace, but merc or rbr always emerged on top in Q3 at the end. How is that representative?? If you are talking about long run pace, then yes. However, Lotus was 1seconds/ lap slower than ferrari and rbr on friday's long run already.

Indicating the sign of catastrophe.

No indicating Lotus doesnt do good in low temp races, nothing more then that.

gobjb
gobjb
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Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 17:39

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Kansas wrote:more downforce wouldn't hurt. Struggle to understand from the outlook how Rbr managed to squeeze so much downforce from similar ramp style coanda. Even Torro Rosso has improved dramatically after fitting with similar coanda design as rbr and Lotus.
Red Bull's been developing their ramp for almost a year longer than Lotus and it wasn't exactly easy and straightforward for Newey's team either. It's a delicate matter of getting the right package from front to rear, side to side and floor to roll hoop to get the most out of the car and I don't think anyone here can see where Lotus' missed tenths/seconds can be found.

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Blackout
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Kansas wrote: many times lotus did well in Fp2 on single lap pace, but merc or rbr always emerged on top in Q3 at the end
And ? The Merc and RBR are faster on single lap pace anyways and I'm not tlaking about grid positions. I'm talking about the ability of the E21 to be fast and qualify near the top...

About the Ramp/Tunnel-Exhausts; RBR and Lotus do not really use the same solution. Maybe the Lotus one is simpler and is waiting for more developpements hence the RB9 has, on each side, two tunnels that blow in two different areas while the E21 has only one tunnel under each exhaust...

Kansas
Kansas
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Joined: 01 Feb 2013, 03:53

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Blackout wrote:
Kansas wrote: many times lotus did well in Fp2 on single lap pace, but merc or rbr always emerged on top in Q3 at the end
And ? The Merc and RBR are faster on single lap pace anyways and I'm not tlaking about grid positions. I'm talking about the ability of the E21 to be fast and qualify near the top...

About the Ramp/Tunnel-Exhausts; RBR and Lotus do not really use the same solution. Maybe the Lotus one is simpler and is waiting for more developpements hence the RB9 has, on each side, two tunnels that blow in two different areas while the E21 has only one tunnel under each exhaust...
they are bringing new bodywork to silverstone. Hopefully its an improvisation on exhaust area...

stefan_
stefan_
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Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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"Pelican" vs."Non-Pelican" F1's car nose brief CFD analysis

The “non-pelican” nose:
Image

The “pelican” nose:
Image

As in the previous step-less vs. stepped F1's car nose brief CFD analysis:

- They have been used the real length between lines A-A and B-B (925 mm) besides the minimum external dimension (vertical) at the section A-A (275 mm) and the minimum external dimension (vertical) at the section B-B (400mm).

- It has been set, too, an airflow's speed of 50m/s because that's the maximum allowed by FIA (2013 Formula One Sporting Regulations) during wind tunnel testing [Rule 22.10].

This is the velocity vectors chart, for the “non-pelican” nose:
Image

Enlarged view of the above image:
Image

This is the velocity vectors chart, for the “pelican” nose:
Image

Enlarged view of the above image:
Image

Velocity vectors comparative chart for both noses:
Image

We can see, that the presence of the bulge under the nose increases airflow's speed.

Enlarged view of the above image:
Image

In addition to velocity vectors, we are able to analyse velocity and static pressure contours, too.

If we look at the contours of velocity, we can see how airflow's speed increases for the “pelican” nose case.
Image

Enlarged view of the above image:
Image

Static Pressure contours comparative chart for both noses:
Image

Enlarged view of the above image:
Image

For the “pelican” case, there will have a bigger static pressure gradient, in other words, the “pelican” nose (such as they[both noses] were drawn) will create “more downforce” than the “non-pelican” one.
We should note that, because we have not taken into account the front wing elements (main profile, flaps, etc.), after the iterative process we obtain “positive” values of the coefficient “cl” (downforce coefficient).
More than the values obtained for the downforce coefficient, what is truly important here, is its change as the “non-pelican” or the “pelican” one, may be the case.

“Non-pelican” nose results:
Image
“Pelican” nose results:
Image

We can see that clpelican<clnon-pelican, in other words, the presence of such a bulge underneath of the nose, induces a “more negative (smaller)” downforce coefficient (0.23<0.30).

Regards, MarleneKberg.
via Marlene K. Berg (SOURCE)
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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variante
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Joined: 09 Apr 2012, 11:36
Location: Monza

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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About "pelican nosecones".
These are CFD images showing pressure distribution around normal nose VS small pelican nose (let's call it that way). Since these are 3D models of entire (and slightly different) F1 cars, there are variables affecting the results that we can't see; however it should give a good idea of what's happening.
Image
Image

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lio007
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 23:03
Location: Austria

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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new parts for silverstone:
narrower bodywork package, revised FW, suspension updates, some aero upgrades.

they also did some straight line tests and it looks promising.

according to an interview with alan permane: http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/forme ... -wahl.html

Kansas
Kansas
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Joined: 01 Feb 2013, 03:53

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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smaller sidepod (like rbr and sauber). new flow conditioner on top of sidepod, pelican front nose is back.

that's my guess.