Sebastian Vettel has won the Korean Grand Prix for the third time in a row, ahead of Raikkonen and Grosjean. Most attention however went to Pirelli who saw another tyre blow, to Mark Webber whose car went up in smoke and to a fire truck that briefly led the race.
Rikhart wrote:
No, friend, it´s not me. It´s reality, via numbers. Stop fishing for made up ---, you are dreaming.
I think you've got it round the other way. LHD in a LHD country is the awkward thing.raymondu999 wrote:I have no doubt they do - but why not bring in a right-hand-drive car? Driving left-hand-drive in a right-hand-drive country is not very easy. All the driver facilities such as tickets and stuff that you have to take are on the right. Trust me, I've driven my friend's LHD car in a RHD country. lol
I used to like Hamilton a lot but now due to his latest comments I start to change my mind. Alonso and Hamilton keep talking about how they are the best and Vettel is winning because of the car.If the situation was reverse...surely he is. When kimi had a broken front wing in Q3. hahahahamajki2111 wrote:Grosejan is better than Kimi in raw speed.Rikhart wrote:Dude if you honestly believe grosjean is better than Raikkonen in any way, shape, or form, you have serious issues.
Germany?? when Kimi was pitted earlier and got stuck behind traffic despite lapping faster still. And for your information, Kimi was in front of Romain at that point.iotar__ wrote:Permane: "We have let Kimi past him a couple of times this year, and those have been with good reason when we have had a shot of overtaking."
Any doubts that Lotus are lying? Boooo. What shot at Silverstone, at what exactly? What shot in Germany? Zero. The real team orders were in the form of "undercut" or split strategy of changing to older than Vettel's mediums? What "good reason" was present at the time of doing it? "We tried to undercut Vettel with Grosjean but that didn't work," 1. Lie 2. I wonder why changing to older tyres with low deg in the middle of two tyres stints didn't work. Who was faster in the first stint in Germany and had the chance to close on Vettel even more? No "good reason" team orders there? Who was faster on softs and had better chance to challenge Vettel? It was a "real shot" for a change. Salesman of owner's preferred driver is now pretending that there was some logic to team orders at Lotus, not to mention results. No there wasn't, just marketing preference of a driver.
Not this year but still failures of TO: what shot in Bahrain? Zero. What shot in Hungary 2012 (you can pretend this wasn't TO but had they been driving for different teams KR would have never finished in front after ptistops)? Zero. What shot in Singapore at anything? Zero, glorious two points gained. OK, let's pretend these were "shots", it's 100% failure rate, very impressive from both driver and team. Not challenging Vettel in Korea (let's be clear - no doubt about it and I wouldn't want it) would be no differentbut at least they'd be consistent.
What about safety cars Mr Permane? "There was an element of luck for Kimi with the safety car" "Element"? How about full 100% element of luck (25 s)? Really small number in F1. Same song as in Germany: [the safety car] "It played into Kimi's hands a little" Yes "a little", the whole 10 s, he would have had no chance to be anywhere near top 2 without it. What were the other elements I wonder, the bigger part in Germany for example? Ugh, marketing pitch.
They can play their games (what can you do?) and have two failed seasons in a row no one is responsible for of course, but this shameless lying is what bothers me. I'm surprised Allison packed himself and left in the middle of the season despite all the "shots" at great results.
5sec gap prior to first Sc is consider piling pressure on the leader.......And listen to TR, Rocky was telling Seb to manage the pace instead of pushing, obviously they thought Romain wasn't close to being a threat LMAO.ringo wrote:Rikhart wrote:
No, friend, it´s not me. It´s reality, via numbers. Stop fishing for made up ---, you are dreaming.
Grosjean is the faster driver on raw pace. His qualifying record is still quite good compared to Kimi. Let's just wait till suzuka.
Kimi aint fast any more.
Give me a race where his piling pressure on the leaders like Grosjean througout the whole race.
Just dragging on in the usual tiresome way, diluting with some meaningless tangents until everyone loses interest, without adding anything about Korea or Lotus lying about team orders, which was the subject. Using team orders one sidedly and failures every time it happened.Kansas wrote:Germany?? when Kimi was pitted earlier and got stuck behind traffic despite lapping faster still. And for your information, Kimi was in front of Romain at that point.iotar__ wrote:Permane: "We have let Kimi past him a couple of times this year, and those have been with good reason when we have had a shot of overtaking."
Any doubts that Lotus are lying? Boooo. What shot at Silverstone, at what exactly? What shot in Germany? Zero. The real team orders were in the form of "undercut" or split strategy of changing to older than Vettel's mediums? What "good reason" was present at the time of doing it? "We tried to undercut Vettel with Grosjean but that didn't work," 1. Lie 2. I wonder why changing to older tyres with low deg in the middle of two tyres stints didn't work. Who was faster in the first stint in Germany and had the chance to close on Vettel even more? No "good reason" team orders there? Who was faster on softs and had better chance to challenge Vettel? It was a "real shot" for a change. Salesman of owner's preferred driver is now pretending that there was some logic to team orders at Lotus, not to mention results. No there wasn't, just marketing preference of a driver.
Not this year but still failures of TO: what shot in Bahrain? Zero. What shot in Hungary 2012 (you can pretend this wasn't TO but had they been driving for different teams KR would have never finished in front after ptistops)? Zero. What shot in Singapore at anything? Zero, glorious two points gained. OK, let's pretend these were "shots", it's 100% failure rate, very impressive from both driver and team. Not challenging Vettel in Korea (let's be clear - no doubt about it and I wouldn't want it) would be no different
What about safety cars Mr Permane? "There was an element of luck for Kimi with the safety car" "Element"? How about full 100% element of luck (25 s)? Really small number in F1. Same song as in Germany: [the safety car] "It played into Kimi's hands a little" Yes "a little", the whole 10 s, he would have had no chance to be anywhere near top 2 without it. What were the other elements I wonder, the bigger part in Germany for example? Ugh, marketing pitch.
They can play their games (what can you do?) and have two failed seasons in a row no one is responsible for of course, but this shameless lying is what bothers me. I'm surprised Allison packed himself and left in the middle of the season despite all the "shots" at great results.
Silverstone?? Kimi was in front of Alonso. Alonso pitted to undercut, Lotus instead pitted Romain that was behind Nando and make kimi stay out. Kimi pitted and came out behind both nando and romain. Kimi was harassing Romain's back all the time for being much quicker, even without TO, he was a gone case. In the end, the team didn't pit kimi under SC and lost an easy P2.
Korea?? Romain wasnt even quicker than Kimi despite having fresher rubber. Until the last two laps when kimi's front tire gone, he was able to get into DRS zone. The team obviously not convince by his speed and the probability of cacthing up Seb, hence they reject the request of TO from Romain.
For your information, all the TO events from Lotus so far, had been their own-doing for compromising Kimi with strategy. In korea gp for example, kimi got pass Alonso, Alonso pitted, and Kimi stayed out. When kimi pitted he was behind Alonso again.
Not to mention the past few races kimi had been treated very badly.
Canada, bad car. Bad pit stops, rear brake issues....kimi had to switch the brake balance forward and rely on front brake on a rear limited circuit. Insufficient fuel issues arose, Kers not able to harvest due to rear brake issues. Finish in the point and once again demolished Romain on sheer pace with all the issues combined.
Spa, the team send kimi out on the worst probable timing to get a lap in. Kimi was the fastest guy on Q2. On the race, Romain almost crash into Kimi, otherwise, he would've been p4 or p5 after the turn1. Doesnt matter, demolised Romain with ease because their pace in comparison is like comparing different planets. kimi rose up with few sick move and on course for Top5 finishes, but brake failure costed him.
Loose seat in Singapore, injured kimi's spine. And it was Seb's physio and mclaren's doctor Aki that came to the rescue, not Lotus.
Broken front wing in Q3, team only found out in the evening. Lack of focus on Kimi's garage.
Anyway, its easy to just claim Kimi had no raw pace whatsoever. Lucky?? if he has that tad of luck, he would be 3 times or even more WDC.
I was just showing the past example of those TO event you mentioned where you claimed it was unfair to Gro. Your ignorance blinded you to the fact that Kimi that started in front of Gro in both occasions was compromised by team strategy and ended up behind despite being much much faster. Those guys have telemetry on the pit wall, if Romain was 5 tenth quicker than Kimi at that point, in which he should, he would've close in after 2nd SC restart and the team would've notice. Instead, he was just barely matching Kimi on older tire (7 laps ). In this case, Kimi proved to the team and earned his right to be ahead.iotar__ wrote:Just dragging on in the usual tiresome way, diluting with some meaningless tangents until everyone loses interest, without adding anything about Korea or Lotus lying about team orders, which was the subject. Using team orders one sidedly and failures every time it happened.Kansas wrote:Germany?? when Kimi was pitted earlier and got stuck behind traffic despite lapping faster still. And for your information, Kimi was in front of Romain at that point.iotar__ wrote:Permane: "We have let Kimi past him a couple of times this year, and those have been with good reason when we have had a shot of overtaking."
Any doubts that Lotus are lying? Boooo. What shot at Silverstone, at what exactly? What shot in Germany? Zero. The real team orders were in the form of "undercut" or split strategy of changing to older than Vettel's mediums? What "good reason" was present at the time of doing it? "We tried to undercut Vettel with Grosjean but that didn't work," 1. Lie 2. I wonder why changing to older tyres with low deg in the middle of two tyres stints didn't work. Who was faster in the first stint in Germany and had the chance to close on Vettel even more? No "good reason" team orders there? Who was faster on softs and had better chance to challenge Vettel? It was a "real shot" for a change. Salesman of owner's preferred driver is now pretending that there was some logic to team orders at Lotus, not to mention results. No there wasn't, just marketing preference of a driver.
Not this year but still failures of TO: what shot in Bahrain? Zero. What shot in Hungary 2012 (you can pretend this wasn't TO but had they been driving for different teams KR would have never finished in front after ptistops)? Zero. What shot in Singapore at anything? Zero, glorious two points gained. OK, let's pretend these were "shots", it's 100% failure rate, very impressive from both driver and team. Not challenging Vettel in Korea (let's be clear - no doubt about it and I wouldn't want it) would be no different
What about safety cars Mr Permane? "There was an element of luck for Kimi with the safety car" "Element"? How about full 100% element of luck (25 s)? Really small number in F1. Same song as in Germany: [the safety car] "It played into Kimi's hands a little" Yes "a little", the whole 10 s, he would have had no chance to be anywhere near top 2 without it. What were the other elements I wonder, the bigger part in Germany for example? Ugh, marketing pitch.
They can play their games (what can you do?) and have two failed seasons in a row no one is responsible for of course, but this shameless lying is what bothers me. I'm surprised Allison packed himself and left in the middle of the season despite all the "shots" at great results.
Silverstone?? Kimi was in front of Alonso. Alonso pitted to undercut, Lotus instead pitted Romain that was behind Nando and make kimi stay out. Kimi pitted and came out behind both nando and romain. Kimi was harassing Romain's back all the time for being much quicker, even without TO, he was a gone case. In the end, the team didn't pit kimi under SC and lost an easy P2.
Korea?? Romain wasnt even quicker than Kimi despite having fresher rubber. Until the last two laps when kimi's front tire gone, he was able to get into DRS zone. The team obviously not convince by his speed and the probability of cacthing up Seb, hence they reject the request of TO from Romain.
For your information, all the TO events from Lotus so far, had been their own-doing for compromising Kimi with strategy. In korea gp for example, kimi got pass Alonso, Alonso pitted, and Kimi stayed out. When kimi pitted he was behind Alonso again.
Not to mention the past few races kimi had been treated very badly.
Canada, bad car. Bad pit stops, rear brake issues....kimi had to switch the brake balance forward and rely on front brake on a rear limited circuit. Insufficient fuel issues arose, Kers not able to harvest due to rear brake issues. Finish in the point and once again demolished Romain on sheer pace with all the issues combined.
Spa, the team send kimi out on the worst probable timing to get a lap in. Kimi was the fastest guy on Q2. On the race, Romain almost crash into Kimi, otherwise, he would've been p4 or p5 after the turn1. Doesnt matter, demolised Romain with ease because their pace in comparison is like comparing different planets. kimi rose up with few sick move and on course for Top5 finishes, but brake failure costed him.
Loose seat in Singapore, injured kimi's spine. And it was Seb's physio and mclaren's doctor Aki that came to the rescue, not Lotus.
Broken front wing in Q3, team only found out in the evening. Lack of focus on Kimi's garage.
Anyway, its easy to just claim Kimi had no raw pace whatsoever. Lucky?? if he has that tad of luck, he would be 3 times or even more WDC.
If the subject is dissecting theoretical scenarios (safety car) as a way of assessment of driver's performance then one should dissect them all, it's only fair.
"It's not only luck and car". How about starting in the beginning: Massa, Gutierrez, Perez, probably Button - at least THREE drivers who were in front of Raikkonen after start before first lap pile up. Their biggest fault not being slow and passive. Add to that compromised Alonso and Ricciardo who started on mediums 13th - five (six?) not two drivers in front, bunched together, further seconds of a cushion, no free air, you can overtake them all of course. That was thanks to pure driving skills and not luck, Lotus didn't mention about this "bit' of luck in their race notes? Why don't you chew on that while wating for safety car, I'll pass.
[About team orders] They probably keep pretending that there's some logic to it and not marketing/owner's preference not only publically but also internally. So before the race and after one driver was a subject of failed TO many times they tell the rules: "if you are in better position (tyres) you will also get TO". Then when it doesn't happen several times because
they lie driver can be frustrated.
Non of "reporting" included this basic idea, the same with mentioned earlier theoretical scenario of Vettel developing problems and higher chance of overtaking him with fresher tyres. Why would you, against the team and prefererences/demography?
Ringo's point was that if you drive on the right (RHD roads) you put the steering wheel on the left side of the car (LHD car).raymondu999 wrote:(As I live in a RHD country) - LHD is awkward, period.
Ultimately Usain Bolt saved the show. Sprinting and in particular the 100m has long been stained with the whiff of 'enhancements'. Bolt dominating and doing so cleanly is a godsend.raymondu999 wrote: I have no issue with saying people have a bad opinion of Vettel's dominance. But let's use the right words. Is Usain Bolt killing sprint races? No. He's killing the show.
Agree with the statement.raymondu999 wrote: Dominance does not kill sports. Dominance kills shows. Fact.
Thanks to Swerved on autosport forums:ringo wrote:Rikhart wrote:
No, friend, it´s not me. It´s reality, via numbers. Stop fishing for made up ---, you are dreaming.
Grosjean is the faster driver on raw pace. His qualifying record is still quite good compared to Kimi. Let's just wait till suzuka.
Kimi aint fast any more.
Give me a race where his piling pressure on the leaders like Grosjean througout the whole race.
RHD roads have you driving in the left lane, and you drive on the right side of the car.komninosm wrote:Ringo's point was that if you drive on the right (RHD roads) you put the steering wheel on the left side of the car (LHD car).raymondu999 wrote:(As I live in a RHD country) - LHD is awkward, period.
.
