Red Bull RB9 Renault

[trinidefender]

The drawing could have been more correct, but it has an angle of 45 degrees.

No, the text says one element has an offset of 45 degrees to the other. While the other one is parallel to the endplate. Both is wrong.

Both elements are more or less parallel to the outwards bend endpart of the endplate and imho are there to push more air away from the front tire. The elements imho are only separated to reduce the higher drag a one piece solution would provide.

A one piece element, provided you can get it to work without stalling, would actually almost always produce less drag than a 2 element wing plane. The problem comes from trying to turn the airflow that much. To turn the airflow the less any part of either element that stalls the better and more effective the elements will be as a wing. They could not turn the airflow enough to go out of the slot in the end plate with one element without the wing stalling so therefore they used 2 elements.

*note* when I say wing I refer in this case to the vertically mounted 2 elements that make up the wing

[gandharva]

A one piece element, provided you can get it to work without stalling, would actually almost always produce less drag than a 2 element wing plane.

A one piece element would have a bigger surface and therefore create more drag. Laws of physics.

[stefan_]

Japan 2013 - Thursday (10.10.2013)

[trinidefender]

A one piece element, provided you can get it to work without stalling, would actually almost always produce less drag than a 2 element wing plane.

A one piece element would have a bigger surface and therefore create more drag. Laws of physics.

If this is true explain why all planes use a large one piece element as a wing if it causes more drag? To start the surface area is not less. Say you started with a large element, cut it in 2 horizontally and moved the rear element so that it created a double element wing then essentially you have a similar or even larger amount of surface area.

Secondly there are 3 forms of drag acting on any wing.
- Profile drag; this is composed of form drag and skin friction. Form drag is the drag created when airflow separates from the wing. Skin friction is the drag created by the roughness of the skin itself. Generally the rougher the skin the larger the boundary layer. Note, roughness is relative, just because it feels and looks smooth to you doesn't mean the air reacts to it that way.

- Induced drag; is formed when the high pressure air on one side of a wing meets the low pressure air on the other side whether it be at the trailing edge or at the win tips (this is what created the all important vortecies teams are trying to use). These vortecies increase the average wind angle to the rear portion of the blade. Therefore the entire force of the wing is pushing more backward creating more drag.

- parasitic drag is created by all non-lifting components. This includes struts, attachment points etc. basically anything that is attached to the wing that does not aid it in doing its job.

So yea, as you said, physics. Learn it. I've done a fair bit of study on wings as it is part of my job.

[shelly]

Japan 2013 - Thursday (10.10.2013)
http://i.imgur.com/m4Ne0lB.jpg

Very interesting detail fo the floor before the rear wheel. One of the consequences of running more rear ride hieght is that the floor edge can be extended closer to the surface of the wheel. Also wotrh noting, in my opinion:
-the twisted shape of the small profile just in front of the wheels (other teams have it straight)
-the convex surface of the upper part of the floor (check for comparison mclaren, which is convex in the same zone)
-the big fillets at the junction between floor and strakes (other teams do not have them)
- also the thin starkes have a small rounded leading edge, and are both cambers and twisted along their length.

If you compare this picture with one taken in the same zone on the mercedes w04or the e21, the difference is significant.
Ferrari and mclaren are in the middle, more elaborate than lotus and merc, but to me do not give the same visual impression, even if they have very complex shapes (especially the f138 has slots everywhere)

[stefan_]

Japan 2013 - Friday (11.10.2013)

[Kiril Varbanov]

The renowned F1 technical illustrator Giorgio Piola, thinks Newey simply found a higher and smarter gear in the second half of the 2013 campaign.
"The Newey car that debuted at Spa, when the winning streak began, was very different to the previous version," said Italian Piola.
"Wings, floor, how it uses the exhaust gases, this new version of the RB9 was designed for the characteristics of the new Pirelli tyres.
"They (the Pirelli tyres) are very different from the earlier ones, but the other (teams) only made subtle adjustments to their cars," Piola added.

[oT v1]

1 piece creates more downforce/lift but carries more drag, the multi-element is just making the df/drag more efficient for the needs of the car, (I speak as only a reader of this forum any GA's blogs)

[Kiril Varbanov]

Couple of questions to the community, as I struggle to find nice images:

- Has Red Bull fitted the 'heat sink' rims design?
- A viewer asked me: what's the little winglet that Ted Cravitz has been talking about 'inside the wheel hub'?
- Vettel ran the shallower rear wing and a front wing with one flap less? GEPA are still slow in uploading pictures ...

Meanwhile, an analysis from Craig S (@ScarbsF1) on the hot T-Tray in Korea - http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2013/10/10/an ... -in-korea/

[trinidefender]

1 piece creates more downforce/lift but carries more drag, the multi-element is just making the df/drag more efficient for the needs of the car, (I speak as only a reader of this forum any GA's blogs)

A one piece what? Wing? I think you may have the two mixed up there. A single element wing of a given size will have a higher lift to drag ratio than a multi-element wing taking up the same size. Note that I said lift/drag ratio, not peak lift (note that lift does not have to refer to a force upward, it can be any direction). The multiple element wing, for a given size, will usually be able to produce more total lift yet comes at the price of very high drag.

Example. Say a particular single element wing 'x' has a ratio of 1 to 1 of lift to drag and the total lift of 1 Newton (N=1kg*m/s) at speed 'z'. Therefore the drag it creates is also 1N

Now take this multiple element wing 'y' has a lift to drag ratio of 2 to 3 and a total lift of 2N at the same speed 'z'. Therefore the drag will be 3N acting on the car slowing it down.

If wing 'x' can somehow be made larger then it can create the same 2N of lift while only creating 2N of drag. An instant reduction of 33%. Yet as spaces that you are allowed to build wings in on F1 cars are so tightly controlled every manufacturer uses the space to a maximum. So to achieve the peak total downforce they use multiple element wings.

[csponton]

front wing different between the two Red Bull drivers

[turbof1]

Bottom one looks quite a lot like the Monza FW, but then with cascades and R-winglets attached. Red bull feeling like they don't need the full front downforce, one can only look in envy.

[stefan_]

Japan 2013 - Friday (11.10.2013)

[The Pj]

Three front wing used by Vettel...
https://twitter.com/Pjdona/status/388664271539687425

[Phillyred]

RBR's aero/wind tunnel correlation data must be very accurate. They are "sealing" that floor extremely well.