Ross Brawn leaves Mercedes

[autogyro]

Ross started his F1 career working for Patrick Head at Williams.
Returning there would be full circle.
It would also fulfill F1 history to bring Williams back to the top.
IMO such a move is almost inevitable.

[Phil]

Would Brawn even have the energy to do it all again? Doesn't exactly sound like a turn around that would be doable in just a few years. At some point, I suspect he feels like he needs something new and finding energy to do it all again at Williams, I'm not so sure...

[Anon123]

His reasons for leaving suggest to me he's taking a long break, retiring or taking up a position in F1 but not representing a particular team.

[Manoah2u]

Take into account Brawn also has experience with mercedes' material and in the end, that could mean gold for Mclaren

If Brawn had any technical input on the W04, I'll eat my hat. Brawn is a manager with a technical background.
He is not part of the design process in so much as that he gets the right people in the right jobs.
Paddy Lowe leaving McLaren hurt them like a smack in the nuts.
Brawn leaving Mercedes will not yield the same impact on the design team, so long as the design team remains intact.

Furthermore, Ferrari are on a recruitment drive of their own. And they recall Brawn very fondly indeed in these times of Red Bull domination.
The McLaren link is there only through Honda. Honda can be as insistant as they like, they will always bow to McLaren's judgement.
Brawns repertoire will not sit easily with Dennis or Mansour Ojjeh.
It is of course possible, but my view is that any McLaren involvement with Brawn will have to have a heavy dose of Honda.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12472 ... -in-brazil

It's not all about Brawn's technical input, it's about having experience with the people involved and being able to 'get things done'. He managed to spoon a merc engine in a honda-designed car and hail in a WDC+WCC out of it. Obviously the technical staff were the 'brains' in actually getting it done. And that's where Brawn comes into play. He's a first-class strategist, and a good strategist knows putting the right people in the right places. And obviously, somebody who had years of personal connections and involvement in whatever direction will be of aid if you are confronted with that again.

Surely honda will benefit from any form of knowledge that is of mercedes, both in the v8 era as in any kind of information regarding the new v6 era. And thanks for having been team principle in the Mercedes 'works' team, he'll have plenty of access to technical input and knowledge [not that he has to have that knowledge himself, even though it would be foolish to assume he knows squad] regarding just this.

Mind you, Ross was TECH director at both Bennetton and Ferrari > in their championship years.
Aside from that, he was lead designer on the Jaguar XJR-14 '91 WSCC championship winner.

I can say without any doubt that Brawn WILL have had contact with Honda. Zero doubt. that alone does not mean he'd end up with them, but he will have had contact. Even more, there are plenty of signals Mercedes themselves were eyeing to exit brawn. All the people suddenly popping up over there? From Toto to niki, to Paddy being the nail in the coffin.

Brawn might have had plans all along - and Honda must have had a plan buildup for quite some time, you just don't suddenly step into F1 with a new engine formula and hammer in a brand new v6 a year later without proper preperation.
It was in march clear already Ross was going to leave anyway. Nick Fry (Not like he's important tho) leaving and getting replaced by Toto and then the departing Paddy Lowe that ended up at Merc are tell-tale signs it was gonna happen either way.

Question is though, is Brawn leaving because merc 'fishered in' these guys, or did Merc 'fisher in' these guys because Ross was gonna leave anyway? Which came first?

some interesting articles

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/07/r ... -handover/
http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... ri_return/
http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... _Williams/
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/196730/1/n ... honda.html
http://grandprix247.com/2013/10/07/ross ... 1-project/
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... at-mclaren
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/198407/1/b ... mpact.html
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/9001072/

Mclaren new sponsorship, no more perez, honda coming in, button there, brawn leaving merc.........
I think there's more evidence pointing Ross into a Mcl-direction than Ferrari/Williams direction.

[Huntresa]

What about the fact that Ross was and prob is still pissed off at Honda ? I would bet he is going to ferrari.

[Manoah2u]

What about the fact that Ross was and prob is still pissed off at Honda ? I would bet he is going to ferrari.

Why was Ross and still is ross pissed with honda? sources?

He bought the entire outfit for a dime and the honda team gave technical backing while there was a merc engine there and they became WDC and WCC.

[turbof1]

The biggest issue for him getting back to a different team is the reason why he left: he wants sole leadership, but that's just not the way anymore these days to run organisations. Co-leadership outbenefits that. I expect that most teams will evolve to this and don't see any point in hiring Brawn given his demands.

[FoxHound]

just have a look at his record

At Benetton Rory Byrne and Pat Symonds where the force behind the success of the B194 and B195.
It is known that Brawn did not contribute technically to the car, but strategically on the pitwall.

Ross Brawn left Benetton at the end of 1996 and took with him Rory Byrne at the behest of a certain Michael Schumacher.
Allied to the fact that Ferrari had the biggest budget(Toyota excluded), and special vetoing powers on technical regulations, their own tailor made tyres for a few seasons(via bridgestone) and limitless testing.
Ross Brawn was not overruling Byrne when it came to the cars. It was Byrne who designed the cars, and it was Byrne who made the decisions with regard to which direction Ferrari took in designing them assisted by Aldo Costa(since 98).
Brawn was the strategist on the pitwall, and deserves some credit for some remarkable strategies.

At Honda, he made little impact in the first full season and diverted everything to 2009 with a big rule change.
It is well established that a Super Aguri engineer found the loophole for the double diffuser, and passed it on to Honda before their withdrawal.
Loic Bigois and Jorg Zander where responsible for the rest, specifically the front wing which has since gone on to be copied by all teams.
In a nutshell, Brawn was at the right place at the right time. Flavio Briatore or Eddie Jordan could've been in charge of that team and the end result would've been similar. He kept the team going and ensure it's survival, he deserves credit for that.

The real issues arise when the team changes guise to Mercedes.
The team consistently underachieved in spite of Brawn's promise to deliver wins and competitiveness. For 3 years, the team was behind it's objectives.
The reasons given where budgetry(RRA adherences whilst others did not).
However it came as huge suprise to me that Mercedes still had a 50% scale model windtunnel, whilst others where moving to the maximum allowable 60%.
This is a clear management failing, as we can now clearly see the car performs better aerodynamically due to the 4th iteration of the car (W04) benefiting from the upgraded tunnel.

We can also see that, under Brawn's management the W01 and W02 had remarkably low fit and finish standards.
Only towards the end of the W02, and beginning of the W03 could we see the standard improve under the stewardship of Bob Bell. This is tangible proof if needed that Brawn is no technical mastermind.
Aldo Costa Joined a few months later in 2011(December 1st)had a big influence on the W04. Mike Elliott joined from Lotus this year to join Aldo Costa in the aero group.
Mercedes have also fairly recently managed to sign Lotus CFD guru, Jarrod Murphy.

With all this influx of technical staff, it begs the question. What does Brawn do other than supervise or manage?
Your post intimates that Brawn is akin to Newey.
As I have demonstrated, he is very clever and good at what he does, but he is no Newey or Byrne.
He cannot be singled out as a reason for the successes of his previous teams in the way that Byrne, Newey, Costa and Symmonds can.
That is not to denigrate the man, because he has achieved much as part of a collective.
But I see that as no reason why Mercedes should give him everything he wants.

Mercedes offered him his position on reduced terms to accommodate a far more accomplished engineer, Paddy Lowe. Brawn wanted to leave still.
Good luck to him, but Mercedes are no worse off without him in light of Paddy Lowe's presence.

[CHT]

IIRC, the reason why Brawn left Ferrari was because he wants to go back to UK to be closer to his families. And now that he has made shi.t load of money from selling his stake to MERC, I honestly doubt he will want to go back to Italy and put himself in unnecessary pressure to bring back the glories days of MSC. I think Brawn will most likely take a year off and work with Honda as a consultant and perhaps Mclaren in 2015.

Having said that, I think RB is starting to look very prosperous and contended with life so I have my doubt if he still has the drive to travel around the world with F1 team.

[Manoah2u]

At Benetton Rory Byrne and Pat Symonds where the force behind the success of the B194 and B195.
It is known that Brawn did not contribute technically to the car, but strategically on the pitwall.

Brawn was TECH director.

Ross Brawn left Benetton at the end of 1996 and took with him Rory Byrne at the behest of a certain Michael Schumacher.
Allied to the fact that Ferrari had the biggest budget(Toyota excluded), and special vetoing powers on technical regulations, their own tailor made tyres for a few seasons(via bridgestone) and limitless testing.
Ross Brawn was not overruling Byrne when it came to the cars. It was Byrne who designed the cars, and it was Byrne who made the decisions with regard to which direction Ferrari took in designing them assisted by Aldo Costa(since 98).
Brawn was the strategist on the pitwall, and deserves some credit for some remarkable strategies.

"some credit" ?? You are now reducing Ross to the level of the cleaner in the team that made the garage nice
and tidy? Sure, let's take away every input Ross did and put it on others.
Why was brawn even there? They could've done easily without him, he was just on the pitwall, luckily reading the
races, and pointing a few fingers, but hey, Rory Bryne made a car that essentially like the Redbull now, can't fail, huh?
So in the end - Ross was just there for nothing?

At Honda, he made little impact in the first full season and diverted everything to 2009 with a big rule change.

That's a key sign of intelligence and strategy and actually knowing your profession instead of going after a goal
that has zero point.

It is well established that a Super Aguri engineer found the loophole for the double diffuser, and passed it on to Honda before their withdrawal. Loic Bigois and Jorg Zander where responsible for the rest, specifically the front wing which has since gone on to be copied by all teams.

I'm sure Brawn was just eating from his nose. Just sitting and everything came to play, everybody just popped up from
nowhere with bright ideas that NOBODY thought about, worked about, and all the bright minds at Brackley just put a car together so he and JB could take the credit. =D>

In a nutshell, Brawn was at the right place at the right time. Flavio Briatore or Eddie Jordan could've been in charge of that team and the end result would've been similar. He kept the team going and ensure it's survival, he deserves credit for that.

So he's just lucky, huh? Man of luck, just sitting somewhere and everything wonderously just went his way.
ANYBODY could have done that, hey, if Peter Windsor was there it would've worked! Are you serious?

The real issues arise when the team changes guise to Mercedes.
The team consistently underachieved in spite of Brawn's promise to deliver wins and competitiveness. For 3 years, the team was behind it's objectives.
The reasons given where budgetry(RRA adherences whilst others did not).
However it came as huge suprise to me that Mercedes still had a 50% scale model windtunnel, whilst others where moving to the maximum allowable 60%.
This is a clear management failing, as we can now clearly see the car performs better aerodynamically due to the 4th iteration of the car (W04) benefiting from the upgraded tunnel.

Ah so first, it's all tech, which wasn't brawns department, and had nothing to do with it. But now let's blame him for 3 cars that didn't do what they hope it would bring. Now things go better and suddenly, it's good management. And hey, that's due to new people at play, not Brawn offcourse, who's hasn't been there at all in 2012. Coz its so easy, just flip a switch and this year things will be great!

We can also see that, under Brawn's management the W01 and W02 had remarkably low fit and finish standards.
Only towards the end of the W02, and beginning of the W03 could we see the standard improve under the stewardship of Bob Bell. This is tangible proof if needed that Brawn is no technical mastermind.

No it's utter BS and lacking and refusing to take into account the logical effects after the 2009 season. It's bias at it's best.

Aldo Costa Joined a few months later in 2011(December 1st)had a big influence on the W04. Mike Elliott joined from Lotus this year to join Aldo Costa in the aero group.
Mercedes have also fairly recently managed to sign Lotus CFD guru, Jarrod Murphy.

So, everybody gets the credit, and Brawn must have zero.

With all this influx of technical staff, it begs the question. What does Brawn do other than supervise or manage?
Your post intimates that Brawn is akin to Newey.
As I have demonstrated, he is very clever and good at what he does, but he is no Newey or Byrne.
He cannot be singled out as a reason for the successes of his previous teams in the way that Byrne, Newey, Costa and Symmonds can.
That is not to denigrate the man, because he has achieved much as part of a collective.
But I see that as no reason why Mercedes should give him everything he wants.

Where have you demonstrated anything but bias?

You seem to even lack the reason why Brawn is leaving. He wanted a clear-cut position in the team. He just doesn't get that. So he leaves, like he stated before. That's not about 'getting everything he wants'. That's simply stating the situation and that it is not a situation where he agrees remaining his position, and so he decides to leave.
There isn't a single demand list presented by Ross, not a demand list to any other team aswell, but people make up like he is some dictator that demands total controll and exclusivity.

Mercedes offered him his position on reduced terms to accommodate a far more accomplished engineer, Paddy Lowe. Brawn wanted to leave still.
Good luck to him, but Mercedes are no worse off without him in light of Paddy Lowe's presence.

Please, sources. Show me these reduced terms, haven't read them nowhere. Or is it just 'assumptions'?

People aren't confusing Brawn with Newey. They're 2 different people with 2 different 'qualities'. Newey isn't team principal
at RedBull, that's Christian Horner. But during the Ferrari and Benneton championships, he was the official TECH director.
So to say he had zero influence in that department is rediculous.

However, Ross is team principal now, not a tech director. To just downgrade Ross like he was at the right place at the right time is absolutely respectless to the man's efforts, the man's achievement's, the man's official decorations and results.
It's bias at it's highest, surely the same is not said about christian horner?

Newey without a doubt is the most driving force behind RedBull's success, but it is a TEAM effort, and not just one individual, you need ALL the right pawns in ALL the right places.
And Horner IS team principle there, and DOES manage things right.

If Horner would jump to ferrari in 2 years, and he'd manage to get some Championships under his belt with that team. And then he goes to another team, williams for example, and homes in some extra championships.
Are people really gonna say it was the tech that did it, he was lucky?

That's just loon. Why do people talk so respectless about brawn?
Is it jealousy? I dunno, but he should get more credit where credit is due.
With the above statements you can just take away any credit to any team principle ever in time.

Just look at mclaren, under Ron Dennis' reign they got multiple championships with various drivers and various tech staff.
So should dennis be downgraded and ignored? No. Look at whitmarsh, they've achieved nothing now. Guess who worked
at mclaren for years before he went to Merc. Paddy lowe. What did he bring at Mclaren? Oh yes, have you seen this years Mclaren? You think martin designed that? What about it's predecessor? What about all the years before where Mclaren did perform but did miss out every single time?

And yes, newey was at Mclaren, and they got good results. But they didn't get 4-in-a-row championship results.
Newey wasn't hailed as much as he is now at RBR. If coming years they suck, newey is dispised and thrown in the dirt again.

What it is tho, is the right people at the right spots. And that's not a thing of luck. That's hard work. And if any, it's strategy. And if people show that they've managed to achieve championship wins in diverse teams, it shows their
unquestionable qualities and strenghts and thus respect is due where it should.

And it's complete BS to say Ross deserves zero tech credit when he made the championship years happen, and then all of a sudden DO POINT BLAME on him on a technical level when the Merc W01 and W02 didn't perform well? Are you kidding me?
So all of a sudden when it fits the profile to bash then he is tech? But when there was success, it was due to everybody else
BUT ross, the actual TECH director? =D>

Be reminded of the simple fact Brawn stated EARLY in the 2009 season that they put in so much investment in the BGP001 at the season start, and had close to ZERO sponsoring, that they simply had NO MONEY for development, and thus put ALL BUDGET, all effort into the BGP 001 in the hopes it would be enough to get the Championship under the belt.

It was clear as day they didn't 'develop' because where they were dominant at the start, they fumbled more and more towards the end where RedBull came closer and closer. Guess what that means for the next year: all recourses gone into the BGP001, no sponsorship, close to zero time spent for 2010. OFFCOURSE the Merc W01 [essentially BGP002) is not gonna be much of a player. Add to that the loss of champion Button and Barrichello and a rusty Schuamacher and Rosberg new to the team and you just CANT achieve the same as before.

I can't believe people are so easily to bias and hate on Ross yet are eager to get on the knees to praise Newey, and compare 2 completely different people with completely different functions.

[xpensive]

Ross Brawn was very useful as long as MrM was in charge of the FIA, but not so much anymore, it's not like he has resigned.

[FoxHound]

Actually manoah I'm a staunch defender of Ross Brawn.
Ask richard the esteemed moderator, and xpensive.

But the reality is he lets the brains of all the operations he's worked at, do the work.
Your rant is aimless, as it puts words in my mouth that I had not said or written.
Since when did I compare Ross Brawn to a cleaner?
I didn't.

I mentioned Briatore and Jordan as they both oversaw successful teams by letting the brains do the work.
Since when did I mention Peter Windsor?

The fact of the matter is Ross Brawn does not design cars in a fashion you are suggesting.
He is an overseer, a manager. A very good one I have said repeatedly.
I also made mention of the fact he is not the "go to" man to eek extra tenths out of a concept in the way Newey Byrne et al are.

You have love for the man, and his management record. I respect that.
But please don't say he is responsible for the successes.
That he had a part in it is undeniable, but he was not the mainstay.

[turbof1]

Winning a championship is a team effort. Always. Ross Brawn contributed to several team's successes, that's undeniable, and he actually had a huge part in the 2009 Brawn Mercedes campaign: if he didn't took the team over from Honda it would have been a huge waste.

But even then it was a team effort. The issue is that most people put the fame at the person who's face is seen most, ignoring all the technicians, engineers, pit stop crew etc, who's work is equally important. It's like a chain: if one segment fails, the whole chain falls apart.

Brawn is a hugely intelligent man, no denying in that. But you need more then that to run a F1 team, let alone a competitive F1 team. Sometimes it also a good thing to equally appreciate the nameless person wearing the safety helmet and with the wheelgun.

[dren]

I'd love to see Brawn at Mclaren. We shall see. I hope he isn't done for good.

[xpensive]

What would McLaren possibly gain from hiring Brawn, everybody can see that Mercedes only came good when he was set aside?

Moreover, there's no way Ron Dennis would employ a MrM-protege after that 100 MUSD fine he slapped the team with.