2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[ringo]

Well if there is fuel pressure regulation, there should be a return line to the tank.
The fuel demand will vary a lot during operation, as the driver presses the pedal. For protection of the pump and other equipment, it does make sense to have a regulator that relieves the fuel rail of fuel pressure.

it can be internal to the pump

A regulator is simpler and more robust, it can also react quicker, as it may use a solenoid. I could be wrong though, as i don't know what modern direct injection cars use. But most common fuel rail vehicles have a regulator with a fuel return line.

[ringo]

ok here is a conundrum. this is what happens when the temperature difference that you wan is too close to ambient.
I wanted to drop the air coming out the turbo to 40 degrees C.
You will find that the hot air leaving the intercooler is hotter than the intake air that it just exchanged heat with. This is the limitation of the LMTD method of heat exchange.
It results in a strange situation where the demand on the intercooler appears to be smaller as heat rates go up. you see that in the middle of the peaks.



Now this doesn't happen in reality. So obviously it means i simply can't cool the air to that which i desire. The air wont be able to go tp 40 degrees C for the conditions it can do 46 C min. The hot air passing over the intercooler will be about the same temp after heat exchange at that point.

When the air flow over the intercooler is doubled hower to 2400cfm, it can realize that 40 degree intake air temp that i want. Also means that the ideal size at that instant is quite small too.



So it very much a dynamic thing to size one of these things. It's almost as if you need to run a complete package on some kind of test bed. I know what are the limits at any given point in time. but when you select a size, how does it perform outside of it's sweet spot?
It's these things the engineers will look into before the select a size for their intercooler among other things.

what is for certain though, is that air flow will be very critical next year. It sounds counterintuitive, but if a team wants smaller sidepods, they must create bigger intake air holes for the radiators.

[djos]

wow, interesting stuff Ringo!

Is it possible to have actively controlled Intercoolers that enable or disable segments as the conditions change to maintain optimal air temps going into the engine?

[langwadt]

Well if there is fuel pressure regulation, there should be a return line to the tank.
The fuel demand will vary a lot during operation, as the driver presses the pedal. For protection of the pump and other equipment, it does make sense to have a regulator that relieves the fuel rail of fuel pressure.

it can be internal to the pump

A regulator is simpler and more robust, it can also react quicker, as it may use a solenoid. I could be wrong though, as i don't know what modern direct injection cars use. But most common fuel rail vehicles have a regulator with a fuel return line.

The regulator can be in the pump, some cars use that, it won't be as accurate since the (flow dependent) pressure loss is not compensated for. I don't think it is so critical, the pump is only a feeder pump to the high pressure pump at the manifold.

There might also be a safety issue, if the fuel line breaks you'll notice immediately because the engine gets no fuel.
if the return line breaks you might not notice because the engine is still getting the fuel it needs

[ringo]

wow, interesting stuff Ringo!

Is it possible to have actively controlled Intercoolers that enable or disable segments as the conditions change to maintain optimal air temps going into the engine?

I never thought about it, but if you do have a thermostat on the engine, you could have something similar for the intercooler.
You could reduce the pressure drop through it if it had multiple cores with valves that open and close.

Having looked at the size, i find it's a nice manageable size in most cases. Using the 89cm x 30cm x 10cm example that's just
3 ft x 1 ft x 4 inch , relatively compact. Not to say these conditions are what the teams will use as their operating point, but just for illustration.

So the other coolers are the radiator, gearbox oil, engine oil, kers battery, kers. I think the MGUH will be fin and fan air cooled along with water cooled with the same water coming from the radiator.

[wuzak]

wow, interesting stuff Ringo!

Is it possible to have actively controlled Intercoolers that enable or disable segments as the conditions change to maintain optimal air temps going into the engine?

I never thought about it, but if you do have a thermostat on the engine, you could have something similar for the intercooler.
You could reduce the pressure drop through it if it had multiple cores with valves that open and close.

Having looked at the size, i find it's a nice manageable size in most cases. Using the 89cm x 30cm x 10cm example that's just
3 ft x 1 ft x 4 inch , relatively compact. Not to say these conditions are what the teams will use as their operating point, but just for illustration.

So the other coolers are the radiator, gearbox oil, engine oil, kers battery, kers. I think the MGUH will be fin and fan air cooled along with water cooled with the same water coming from the radiator.

If you used a liquid to air intercooler you can vary the intercooling by varying the flow rate of the liquid.

[djos]

If you used a liquid to air intercooler you can vary the intercooling by varying the flow rate of the liquid.

makes sense.

[ringo]

What's interesting is that Nikki Lauda mentioned keeping the oil within a certain temperature, as slight changes literally affect the reliability of the engine package.
So temperature control is actually a quite interesting topic. The oil may have a similarly technical cooling circuit as the cooling water.

[xpensive]

I'm still not certain all cars will have an intercooler, the boost is relatively low and the aerodynamic demands so grotesque that running without might be advantageous as a whole. As for the engine oil, when I'm pretty sure those liquids are without Viscosity-index enhancers, viscosity will be xtremely temperature-dependent, but that would be the case also with 2013 V8s.

All in all, as fun as it is to speculate on this, I think there is a whole heap of desinformation going around and what we will see will be a lot different than what has been presented so far.

[Vale46]

When the Fuel Flow Sensor of de FIA was presented, I was thinking of a way to cheat the 100L/hour fuel rate limit.
If you add a flexible fuel line behind the fuel flow sensor, than you can "store" a little of fuel in the flexible fuel line. So you can get a little storage, that alows you to have a very small peak of more than 100L/hour when you start to tweak the pressure of the fuel pump & the line expands or shrinks.

I think there is nothing written about flex fuel lines, and the FIA can't check when they don't know it's there.

[Vale46]

I'm still not certain all cars will have an intercooler, the boost is relatively low and the aerodynamic demands so grotesque that running without might be advantageous as a whole. As for the engine oil, when I'm pretty sure those liquids are without Viscosity-index enhancers, viscosity will be xtremely temperature-dependent, but that would be the case also with 2013 V8s.

All in all, as fun as it is to speculate on this, I think there is a whole heap of desinformation going around and what we will see will be a lot different than what has been presented so far.

Even a small intercooler 'll give you a lot more horsepower, so why won't they? If you get only 1 or 2 bar pressure, you get hot air. Very inefficient for the engine!
Also, if you put hotter air in the engine, the engine itself 'll be hotter and needs more cooling.
So you need a bigger radiator anyway!

[wuzak]

When the Fuel Flow Sensor of de FIA was presented, I was thinking of a way to cheat the 100L/hour fuel rate limit.
If you add a flexible fuel line behind the fuel flow sensor, than you can "store" a little of fuel in the flexible fuel line. So you can get a little storage, that alows you to have a very small peak of more than 100L/hour when you start to tweak the pressure of the fuel pump & the line expands or shrinks.

I think there is nothing written about flex fuel lines, and the FIA can't check of they don't know it's there.

The rules forbid any attempt to beat the fuel flow sensor, even if they do not specifically rule out any ideas.

[wuzak]

I'm still not certain all cars will have an intercooler, the boost is relatively low and the aerodynamic demands so grotesque that running without might be advantageous as a whole. As for the engine oil, when I'm pretty sure those liquids are without Viscosity-index enhancers, viscosity will be xtremely temperature-dependent, but that would be the case also with 2013 V8s.

All in all, as fun as it is to speculate on this, I think there is a whole heap of desinformation going around and what we will see will be a lot different than what has been presented so far.

Even a small intercooler 'll give you a lot more horsepower, so why won't they? If you get only 1 or 2 bar pressure, you get hot air. Very inefficient for the engine!
Also, if you put hotter air in the engine, the engine itself 'll be hotter and needs more cooling.
So you need a bigger radiator anyway!

The more power from the normal intercooler operation is the be able to stuff in more air, and this stuff in more fuel. Not applicable in 2014.

[Vale46]

When the Fuel Flow Sensor of de FIA was presented, I was thinking of a way to cheat the 100L/hour fuel rate limit.
If you add a flexible fuel line behind the fuel flow sensor, than you can "store" a little of fuel in the flexible fuel line. So you can get a little storage, that alows you to have a very small peak of more than 100L/hour when you start to tweak the pressure of the fuel pump & the line expands or shrinks.

I think there is nothing written about flex fuel lines, and the FIA can't check of they don't know it's there.

The rules forbid any attempt to beat the fuel flow sensor, even if they do not specifically rule out any ideas.

But how do they know? I don't think they are going to check the fuel lines to check the flexibility of them. Because when the car is in parc Ferme, they is no pressure on the line at all.

[wuzak]

I'm still not certain all cars will have an intercooler, the boost is relatively low and the aerodynamic demands so grotesque that running without might be advantageous as a whole. As for the engine oil, when I'm pretty sure those liquids are without Viscosity-index enhancers, viscosity will be xtremely temperature-dependent, but that would be the case also with 2013 V8s.

All in all, as fun as it is to speculate on this, I think there is a whole heap of desinformation going around and what we will see will be a lot different than what has been presented so far.

For a PR of 2 (ie 2 bar MAP, 1 bar boost) the outlet temperature of the compressor will be ~115C. For 2.5 that is raised to ~150C. For a PR of 3 the outlet is ~180C.

If I am using the correct constant (Wiki gives 7/5 for a diatomic gas = 1.4).