2014 Engine yin yang

[Kansas]

top speed could be rear wing and gear setting..........

[Bart111]

I think it's interesting what Mark Gillan said here http://goo.gl/MdLQhk
"It’s close with Ferrari, but Williams look as though they shade it, although Ferrari didn’t really do low fuel headline laps. The high fuel running is comparable between the two teams. That said there will be new development parts coming for Melbourne, so it may swing back to Ferrari, but that is the top three at the moment."

I'm not at all so sure the engine in underpowered (Domenicali said the rumour was untrue). I think they're a little bit behind with the engine in a way they don't yet have a full understanding of it and therefore couldn't do as much detailed aero and engine performance tests as Merc did. The season is long, very long, and they're playing the long game. They're almost there with reliability and when they've ticked all the boxes on that, they'll concentrate more on performance.
With the resources and expertise (and drivers) they have at Maranello, I see them as genuine title contenders.

What do you guys think?

[Postmoe]

top speed could be rear wing and gear setting..........

They won't compromise all their options for all the season to get 340 kph with an absurd ratio for the engine that they've got. If they reach this speed it's because they have a reasonable power capacity to do it without compromising their potential.

All these rumours about lack of power, given the high speeds they showed consistently, can only be related to lack of an optimal power delivery (I believe). So they are probably finding the Power Unit is delivering its power with peaks and valeys, small lags or inconsistencies between the engine and the MGU-H. This lack of fine tunning, if really exixting, is probably the real thing behind this "lack of 75hp" rumour.

A 1600 cc engine is a very volatile and torqueless engine, in a F1 it must behave a little bit like a 600 cc inline 4 in a RR bike. It must be hard to tune with a turbo and a complex MGU-H system, and Ferrari seems to be reaching the final numbers but will need some time to improve wheelspin and pilot difficulties when choosing the right gear at the end of the turn.

[Coefficient]

if they can achieve it with 75bph less then it meant a very efficient engine indeed caz for producing such power it needs a lot of fuel .... and thanks for understanding.

As nobody has released the bhp being produced, where did you get this 75bhp figure from?

This is the burning issues right now ... i dont know who or how it emerges .... ppl suddenly started to say that Ferrari's PU is producing 75Bph less than the Mercedes PU ...... and that is really funny if one just see that the total bph is around 750bph ... so it means that F14T is producing 340 KMph with only around 675bph PU and that is a surely a funny things.

Apart from rumor ..... i think that Ferrari may be overly cautious with reliability due to their ultra compact cooling arrangement. If they can ensure the reliability part, they can perform better than other (In Ferrari's opinion) with lower drag and better top speed.

This is just my thoughts ...so dont ask for any source plz

Actually, Mercedes claim they're getting 700bhp just from their turbo V6. Then they've got all the hybrid gear which puts them at about 860bhp at peak power when it's all active.

[Bart111]

@Coefficient

Actually, Mercedes claim they're getting 700bhp just from their turbo V6. Then they've got all the hybrid gear which puts them at about 860bhp at peak power when it's all active.

Do you have any source for that?

[Coefficient]

@Coefficient

Actually, Mercedes claim they're getting 700bhp just from their turbo V6. Then they've got all the hybrid gear which puts them at about 860bhp at peak power when it's all active.

Do you have any source for that?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/02/17/f ... 6-present/

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/about- ... 1517416210

http://thejudge13.com/2014/02/07/daily- ... edesEngine

[Mr.G]

I hope that in these two week remaining the La Ferrari with F1 1.6L ICE inside will be lapping day after day in Maranelo. It's not against the rules and they can fine tune MGU-H with MGU-K.

[Thunder]

I hope that in these two week remaining the La Ferrari with F1 1.6L ICE inside will be lapping day after day in Maranelo. It's not against the rules and they can fine tune MGU-H with MGU-K.

I'm sure the Engine Test Rigs in Maranello, Viry and Brixworth are in 24/7 Mode since quite some Time and will be fore some Weeks.

[Crabbia]

top speed could be rear wing and gear setting..........

They won't compromise all their options for all the season to get 340 kph with an absurd ratio for the engine that they've got. If they reach this speed it's because they have a reasonable power capacity to do it without compromising their potential.....

Agree with this. My personal opinion is they intentionally went out with a set up for high speed on the straight to calibrate the brake-by-wire at the maximum breaking.

Also, there is this from earlier in the thread, referring to jerez testing.

Scarbs says in the latest "Motorsport Monday" release that Ferrari were running their ERS at 37.5% for a limited amount of laps as the 3 large cables carrying the current were overheating.

http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//la ... 6e&pnum=16

Granted it was before they clocked 340km/hr but perhaps it is still an issue, if slightly decreased in severity.

I think thats where the figure of 75hp comes from. assume they solved some problems and are now running their ERS at 50% capacity. On a 120hp to 160hp range would give you a deficit of between 60HP and 80HP on peak power.

For me, this fits in well with their ability to do a one off 340km/hr run but that the PU has also been rumoured to be down on power. its a transient issue brought about by the transient nature of the PU.

The story was posted earlier by lazy:

BBC Sport’s chief F1 writer Andrew Benson
"Ferrari's form has been difficult to read so far. They have periodically popped up at the top of the times. And a race run done by Fernando Alonso at the first Bahrain test looked reasonably competitive compared to a simultaneous one by Mercedes driver Nico Rosberg, as far as it was possible to tell. But a senior Ferrari figure revealed this week that the team believe their engine is about 75bhp down on the Mercedes, and they don't understand how their rivals are getting so much power while staying within the fuel restriction introduced this year. Which does not paint too pretty a picture for Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen."

Ouch.

He alludes to it coming from the ICE by suggesting fuel restrictions but that has more to do with total efficiency of the PU than HP of the ICE. i just dont see with low diplacement, restricted maximum boost and an engine that is highly regulated that the 75HP deficit is all down to the ICE.

Also, as mentioned above, no one knows for sure the outputs of even one of these ICEs, let alone the MGUK settings. To know both sets of outputs for either PU to make a comparison is very difficult.

Thanks to the lazy and owen for the information to allow me to draw my conclusions.

[Mr.G]

I hope that in these two week remaining the La Ferrari with F1 1.6L ICE inside will be lapping day after day in Maranelo. It's not against the rules and they can fine tune MGU-H with MGU-K.

I'm sure the Engine Test Rigs in Maranello, Viry and Brixworth are in 24/7 Mode since quite some Time and will be fore some Weeks.

In that case, we want more pictures/videos

[Aesto]

@Coefficient

Actually, Mercedes claim they're getting 700bhp just from their turbo V6. Then they've got all the hybrid gear which puts them at about 860bhp at peak power when it's all active.

Do you have any source for that?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/02/17/f ... 6-present/

That 'source' is based on a very rough calculation done by Auto Motor und Sport, for which there is absolutely no serious proof. When it was first reported, everyone here on F1T rightfully doubted it, but now it's being treated like gospel after all

It’s close with Ferrari, but Williams look as though they shade it, although Ferrari didn’t really do low fuel headline laps.

This is actually kind of weird. Ferrari has always done that in the past few years. Unfortunately we can't really infer anything from it: Either they don't do it because they can't, or they don't do it because for once they're confident enough in their car that they don't want to show their hand. There's no real way to tell

[Bart111]

@Aesto

Ferrari has always done that in the past few years

Also Edd Straw says this year they didn't do any headline times fr the Italian press like they used to in the past.

[Crabbia]

@Coefficient

Actually, Mercedes claim they're getting 700bhp just from their turbo V6. Then they've got all the hybrid gear which puts them at about 860bhp at peak power when it's all active.

Do you have any source for that?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/02/17/f ... 6-present/

it just says a "recent report" as its source but here is an interview with Andy Cowell where the interviewer suggests 700hp and he agrees.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 32979.html

[Forza Ferrari]

I hope that in these two week remaining the La Ferrari with F1 1.6L ICE inside will be lapping day after day in Maranelo. It's not against the rules and they can fine tune MGU-H with MGU-K.

I'm sure the Engine Test Rigs in Maranello, Viry and Brixworth are in 24/7 Mode since quite some Time and will be fore some Weeks.

In that case, we want more pictures/videos

I was in maranello 5 days ago, and the fiorano track remained silent, unfortunately.
also, the test rigs you are refering to was quiet.
The only thing i spotted was a test mule for the new california T.

[miket]

All this talk about 700 bhp

http://www.inautonews.com/mercedes-v6-p ... xdETs6ynkc