Haas - American team in F1

[stephenwh]

Why is it when someone sees F1 for what it is, you get accused of being a fanboy? It is the pinnacle because of prestige, it's history, and the money involved. It is the pinnacle because getting to F1 is the ultimate for the vast majority of race car drivers worldwide. It's not an absurd statement, it's a statement based on reality.

"Every driver on the planet wants to get to F1 and there are only 22 seats." - Simona de Silvestro

[Lycoming]

, but the people doing the racing put as much time, effort, ingenuity and money into developing there cars within the confines of the admittedly dumb rules as possible.

You could say the same for F1 given the controversy over... pretty much every major rule change in the last few years.

Just as Formula One projects the absurd notion that it represents the pinnacle of motorsports

There is nothing absurd about that notion whatsoever. Fans have different preferences for different series for sure, but F1 is one of the top sports in the world which transcends auto racing in general. Comparing NASCAR to F1 is comparing a domestic series with a global series. So it would be like comparing DTM or Aussie v8.

What he's basically saying to the F1 people is, "Don't be an elitist."

[stephenwh]

What he's basically saying to the F1 people is, "Don't be an elitist."

Yes but F1 is an elite sport. "Don't be elitist about something that is elite!" Pretty silly.

[60DShim]

What he's basically saying to the F1 people is, "Don't be an elitist."

Yes but F1 is an elite sport. "Don't be elitist about something that is elite!" Pretty silly.

Most motorsports are elitist sports. Even Nascar. IMO an elitist sport is one which the general public can't afford to participate in. Even at the recreational level. Like football, basketball, rugby ect ect..

[MOWOG]

It is the pinnacle because of prestige, it's history, and the money involved.

Sigh. OK. One more time and then I'm done with splitting these hairs. Formula One prides itself on being the creme de la creme of technical and engineering expertise and excellence in the racing universe. I suggest it is not and that there are other series that could lay claim to that title.

I do not see how an organization that actively prohibits innovation via a byzantine and inflexible regulatory scheme can possibly think of itself as the most technologically advanced racing organization in all the world. That might have been true back when wizards like Colin Chapman and John Barnard where permitted to break the mold if they had a better idea, but it is no longer true and has not been so for quite some time.

As usual, it all depends on how you define your terms. IF "pinnacle of motorsports" means having the most passionate fans or the largest budgets, then OK. Formula One is the schiznit.But IF you are describing the most technically advanced racing series known to mankind, I submit Formula One does not qualify.

You say potayto, I say potahto. So be it. We now return you to your regular programming, already in progress.

[stephenwh]

It is the pinnacle because of prestige, it's history, and the money involved.

Sigh. OK. One more time and then I'm done with splitting these hairs. Formula One prides itself on being the creme de la creme of technical and engineering expertise and excellence in the racing universe. I suggest it is not and that there are other series that could lay claim to that title.

I do not see how an organization that actively prohibits innovation via a byzantine and inflexible regulatory scheme can possibly think of itself as the most technologically advanced racing organization in all the world. That might have been true back when wizards like Colin Chapman and John Barnard where permitted to break the mold if they had a better idea, but it is no longer true and has not been so for quite some time.

As usual, it all depends on how you define your terms. IF "pinnacle of motorsports" means having the most passionate fans or the largest budgets, then OK. Formula One is the schiznit.But IF you are describing the most technically advanced racing series known to mankind, I submit Formula One does not qualify.

You say potayto, I say potahto. So be it. We now return you to your regular programming, already in progress.

Yeah sorry but claiming F1 isn't highly technical is disingenuous. It obviously is. I guess you can argue that LMP1 is more technical or whatever but when it comes to Formula One it is the combination of technology, prestige, circuits, television viewership, history, perception, money, quality of drivers, driver salaries, sponsorship, Ferrari....etc that makes it the pinnacle of motorsports. The current restrictive nature of the rules is simply a sign of the times we are in...the cars were getting too fast and dangerous and the public was demanding closer racing. But there isn't a series out there that has supplanted F1 as the pinnacle, no way.

[Cam]

Formula One prides itself on being the creme de la creme of technical and engineering expertise and excellence in the racing universe. I suggest it is not and that there are other series that could lay claim to that title.

Yeah sorry but claiming F1 isn't highly technical is disingenuous. It obviously is. I guess you can argue that LMP1 is more technical or whatever but when it comes to Formula One it is the combination of technology, prestige, circuits, television viewership, history, perception, money, quality of drivers, driver salaries, sponsorship, Ferrari....etc that makes it the pinnacle of motorsports. The current restrictive nature of the rules is simply a sign of the times we are in...the cars were getting too fast and dangerous and the public was demanding closer racing. But there isn't a series out there that has supplanted F1 as the pinnacle, no way.

Can I suggest that F1 'markets' itself to appear the way you state, but in fact is nowhere near where it actually is, or should be? Welcome to the wonderful world of advertising. Not sure if it works on you? Have a look in your fridge, panty and laundry and let me know what 'brands' you have in there. People are told something is 'great' and they believe it.

Most of the 'tech' in F1 is old really. All they're doing is cobbling old tech together and improving it. There's nothing radically 'new' about anything on an F1 car.

Arguing LMP1 is more technical is correct, IMO. Even to a non-technical person like myself, I can easily understand different teams run different fuels, different engine strategies and I can see how they flow to road cars. This is why more and more manufacturers appear to be heading towards LMP1. We are looking at the future top tier of motorsport and it won't be long now.

F1 has had it's day. When they stopped 6 wheeled cars, fans, funny wings and every other piece of innovation - and made the cars essentially clones - F1 died. The soul has gone. We now have an over-priced spec series that spends more on marketing than series development.

Which is why I don't understand Haas coming to F1. LMP1 is a much better fit and has much more to offer him and the audience. It's like he's last to a party and all that's left is a few passed out people on the couch - the mess looked like is was a cracker - but ultimately he was too late. Starting to get drunk at that stage, is pointless - unless you're an alcoholic!

[stephenwh]

Well I completely and totally disagree. F1 is far from spec, and F1 has most certainly not died. Frankly; that is a ridiculous assertion. Haas layed it out very clearly in his press conference why he is going to F1. It provides his brand with the most surface area on a global stage. I really am not going to get into too many more arguments with people that want to portray what their vision of the world is; as opposed to what the reality of the situation is. It has nothing to do with advertising and everything to do with the reality on the ground. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsports. Full stop.

[Cam]

Formula 1 teams are considering banning in-season testing next year as part of a move to cut costs, AUTOSPORT has learned. Discussions between teams and the FIA are ongoing about ways to reduce spending - with a big focus on more standard parts......

Apart from a lot of 'spec' parts already on every car, talk of more standard parts, talk of customer cars......

It's cool, I don't want to argue with you with either - having opposing opinions is a good thing.

FYI

Advertising in business is a form of marketing communication used to encourage, persuade, or manipulate an audience (viewers, readers or listeners; sometimes a specific group) to take or continue to take some action.

Once you realise that FOM is McDonalds and F1 is a Big Mac - it'll all make sense. Just IMO.

[Moxie]

Once you realise that FOM is McDonalds and F1 is a Big Mac - it'll all make sense. Just IMO.

I would pay to see Bernie Eccelstone don a little hat and ask "Would you like fries with that?"

[MOWOG]

Once you realise that FOM is McDonalds and F1 is a Big Mac - it'll all make sense

Probably the best one sentence description of Formula One I have ever read! BTW, Cam, you and I have precisely the same perspective on this issue. You said what I said, only gooder!

I know we are not supposed to up vote people for an opinion we agree with......but I did anyway!

[Lycoming]

F1 is far from spec

I would argue that F1 is about as close as you can get to a spec series without actually being a spec series.

Haas layed it out very clearly in his press conference why he is going to F1. It provides his brand with the most surface area on a global stage.

It has nothing to do with advertising and everything to do with the reality on the ground.

Wut.

[FW17]

Just as Formula One projects the absurd notion that it represents the pinnacle of motorsports, NASCAR carefully cultivates its image as a home grown, aw shucks, good ol' boy organization. But peel back that folksy veneer and you get quite a different picture.

Popular in the US, but not a global sport at all. F1 is.

I would like to question F1's popularity outside of europe, it has failed spectacularly in all new markets it has tried, and the once that have some semblance of success will surely have a similar or larger success for NASCAR.

The reason f1 moved out of europe? coz europe is broke thankfully NASCAR does not have that issue, hence there is no need for them to be global.

[fasterthanyou]

Just as Formula One projects the absurd notion that it represents the pinnacle of motorsports, NASCAR carefully cultivates its image as a home grown, aw shucks, good ol' boy organization. But peel back that folksy veneer and you get quite a different picture.

Popular in the US, but not a global sport at all. F1 is.

I would like to question F1's popularity outside of europe, it has failed spectacularly in all new markets it has tried, and the once that have some semblance of success will surely have a similar or larger success for NASCAR.

The reason f1 moved out of europe? coz europe is broke thankfully NASCAR does not have that issue, hence there is no need for them to be global.

F1 failure in new markets down to FOM interest in places with most money but no significance motorsport interest. No motorsport series can ever be successful in those places, certainly not NASCAR.

NASCAR never really aimed to be an international series, they know their place.

[strad]

So now I have posts removed??
F1 is not elite and it does not convey elitism to those who watch.