Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2014

[Anon123]

I think Mercedes biggest strength was the GP tracks with the harder grades of tyres like we saw at Silverstone.

[elf341]

The W05 is indeed the most dominant car we have seen in a long time.

Just wanted to correct this fallacy which is repeated a few times. In fact, the W05 over the season isn't that far ahead of the RB7 in terms of dominance.

Cute reply, although perhaps I misunderstand your point - you present a metric of dominance (team points) and show that according to that metric the W05 is the most dominant car.

Some other metrics that might be interesting to assess the dominance of cars are front-row lock-outs and race 1-2s.

Code: Select all

             RB7    W05
Race  1-2      3     11
Quali 1-2      6     12

Another one I considered was the number of races where a different car finished in front on pure pace (this is correlated to 1-2s, but takes into account DNFs). To keep the theme of higher number is better, a "Not Beaten On Pace" metric:

Code: Select all

                      RB7    W05
Not Beaten On Pace      4     15

The MP4-4 is the only car that truly challenges the W05.

[astracrazy]

sky done a peace on the w05 and the drivers they interviewed all said its the most dominant car in history, although the mp4/4 could be there also.

i don't know why people on this forum think they know better

[Dipesh1995]

If you look at the percentage between the amount of races won and the amount of races in their respective seasons, the MP4-4 still has an higher percentage of success at 93.75% compared to W05 which won 84.2% of the races it competed in.

[Shrieker]

If Hamilton had enjoyed #1 privileges like Vettel, Alonso or Schumacher did, he'd more than likely have won 15-16 races this year. Real fans of the sport should be thankful that Mercedes didn't offer any privileges to their drivers and allowed them to race. Schumacher's (2002, 2004) and Vettel's (2011, 2013) seasons were really dark times in terms of title battles. I always watched and know very well what the feeling is like. Their team mates were either unable to or not allowed to challenge them. And I can't remember a single time where they went head to head with their team mates like Nico and Lewis did in Bahrain. It's ironic in a way that what is usually one of the most boring circuits in a season provided a duel that will be remembered for years/decades to come as was the case with Dijon '79.

[WaikeCU]

If Hamilton had enjoyed #1 privileges like Vettel, Alonso or Schumacher did, he'd more than likely have won 15-16 races this year. Real fans of the sport should be thankful that Mercedes didn't offer any privileges to their drivers and allowed them to race. Schumacher's (2002, 2004) and Vettel's (2011, 2013) seasons were really dark times in terms of title battles. I always watched and know very well what the feeling is like. Their team mates were either unable to or not allowed to challenge them. And I can't remember a single time where they went head to head with their team mates like Nico and Lewis did in Bahrain. It's ironic in a way that what is usually one of the most boring circuits in a season provided a duel that will be remembered for years/decades to come as was the case with Dijon '79.

Be sure to see that shift when the competition have closed the gap. Remember when we did the math halfway the season. If Hamilton would have retired and Ricciardo would've won a race, he would've matched Hamilton's points in the season. Considering how dominant the Mercedes at that point was, that advantage wasn't really a lot. I think if the competition will close the gap, Mercedes will hand Hamilton the no.1 status when their both drivers match each other's performance. When you give both your drivers an equal treatment, you won't win the championship unless you have a significant dominance. Other than that, if they continue giving their drivers equal treatment, that would be a sign of error in management at Mercedes.

[i70q7m7ghw]

The W05 is indeed the most dominant car we have seen in a long time.

Just wanted to correct this fallacy which is repeated a few times. In fact, the W05 over the season isn't that far ahead of the RB7 in terms of dominance.

Cute reply, although perhaps I misunderstand your point - you present a metric of dominance (team points) and show that according to that metric the W05 is the most dominant car.

Some other metrics that might be interesting to assess the dominance of cars are front-row lock-outs and race 1-2s.

Code: Select all

             RB7    W05
Race  1-2      3     11
Quali 1-2      6     12

Another one I considered was the number of races where a different car finished in front on pure pace (this is correlated to 1-2s, but takes into account DNFs). To keep the theme of higher number is better, a "Not Beaten On Pace" metric:

Code: Select all

                      RB7    W05
Not Beaten On Pace      4     15

The MP4-4 is the only car that truly challenges the W05.

Okay, now you are just making up statistics to suit your argument. The RB7 won 12 races in 2011, how on earth was it "not beaten on pace" in only 4 races when it finished 1st in 12!?

My point was that yes, the Mercedes has been the most dominant car in recent history, but not by the massive margins people are suggesting, even the F2004 was comparable.

It just appears to be much more dominant this year because no single team mounted a challenge, the rest of the field was closely matched and took points from each other.

[nacho]

Reason for MP4-4 to not win all races was a collision with a backmarker while lapping.

Then again I would have never thought a car can be so dominant in an era with rules that allow small differences between cars. Red Bull/Vettel dominance was completely different, every season there was a threat from other cars and other cars even proved to be faster many times.

[Shrieker]

Quite honestly i don't expect Merc's advantage to wane so much so that another driver from another team will be a substantial threat for the WDC crown. So the intrateam dynamics won't change much, if at all. That said, i do think some of their dominance this season came through the pirelli's suiting their car better. A change in tires might offer an opportunity to others to close the gap to Mercedes as much as half a second per lap - just my 2 cents.

[i70q7m7ghw]

If you want to try to measure the dominance based on pace, look at fastest laps. Still not perfect, because the lead car is likely to coast to the finish towards the end of the race, when the cars tend to be quicker.

The W05 was only beaten to fastest lap 3 times this year.

The RB7 was beaten to fastest lap 7 times.

The F2004 was only beaten to fastest lap 3 times.

I know some of you only started watching F1 recently, but the F2004 was not "a long time ago", and that car was very dominant. I also believe the RB7 was very far ahead of the field that year, they just stroked it home in first place because there was never really any danger.

The MP4/4 was just another dominant car that had 2 quick drivers. Cars like the RB7 & F2004 are comparable, but only 1 driver was extracting the full potential of the car.

[j2004p]

Thought this was a pretty cool way for Merc to congratulate Lewis
https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 8608646145

[Just_a_fan]

I expect the other teams to catch up over the winter. The W05's trick bits such as the turbo installation and the intercooler packaging can now be copied / developed by others. The W05's aero was obviously excellent but it wasn't head and shoulders above the others in the way the RedBull has been in recent years.

I hope Mercedes don't suffer the way Brawn did - one great season whilst others picked themselves up, then back to the midfield.

I expect 2015 to be much closer at the front...

[elf341]

Okay, now you are just making up statistics to suit your argument. The RB7 won 12 races in 2011, how on earth was it "not beaten on pace" in only 4 races when it finished 1st in 12!?

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. By 'not beaten on pace', I mean that no other team's car was able to beat it in the race.

Out of the RB7's 12 wins:
- 7 of those races had an MP4-26 finishing in front of an RB7
- the F150 finished in front of an RB7 4 times (although only 1 time when the MP4-26 did not also finish in front an RB7).
- For only 4 races were no other cars able to beat the RB7 in the race (aka my 'not beaten on pace' statistic of 4)

[SectorOne]

If you want to try to measure the dominance based on pace, look at fastest laps. Still not perfect, because the lead car is likely to coast to the finish towards the end of the race, when the cars tend to be quicker.

It´s a useless way to look at dominance, as proven by the fact that 8 different drivers this year took the fastest lap.

What you look at is

1, points
1, wins
2, front row lockouts
3, race 1-2´s
4, reliability
5, time delta on average to nearest competitor


The RB7 was a very dominant car but it was not as dominant as the Mercedes.
Yes points wise it was fairly close but only because of point 4 in regards to the Mercedes.

In terms of actual pace compared to it´s rivals the RB7 is not even in the same solar system.
The RB7 got beaten on pure pace at venues like Nurburgring and Suzuka.

The W05 by contrast has never been beaten on pure pace.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Okay, now you are just making up statistics to suit your argument. The RB7 won 12 races in 2011, how on earth was it "not beaten on pace" in only 4 races when it finished 1st in 12!?

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. By 'not beaten on pace', I mean that no other team's car was able to beat it in the race.

Out of the RB7's 12 wins:
- 7 of those races had an MP4-26 finishing in front of an RB7
- the F150 finished in front of an RB7 4 times (although only 1 time when the MP4-26 did not also finish in front an RB7).
- For only 4 races were no other cars able to beat the RB7 in the race (aka my 'not beaten on pace' statistic of 4)

What a load of tripe. It's not the car's fault one of the drivers wasn't able to extract the full potential.

Nico Rosberg did a good job of maximizing the potential of the W05, Lewis Hamilton obviously was even better. Mark Webber, Rubens Barrichello, these guys weren't able to make the most of the dominant cars they were given, for whatever reasons (team orders,bad luck etc.)