Ferrari SF15-T Pre-Launch Speculation Thread

[PlatinumZealot]

The definition of a 'split' turbo is whether the Compressor wheel and Turbine wheel are on the same solid shaft or on seperate shafts with some sort of drive-link, not whether the MGUH is in the middle or not. A turbo with the MGUH in the middle can have a single shaft, I know because I have seen it.

Thank you! That is what I have been telling these people. Have an upvote for common sense.

[mantikos]

According to what i found/know Mercedes was the only engine with split turbo... please post your sources

http://jalopnik.com/how-mercedes-ingeni ... 1560969552

Dude you are wrong, read up and do your own research

No, that's not how it works. He already provided a source. Which other team do you think had a split turbo in 2014, and what evidence do you have for that?

Hint: Neither Ferrari nor Renault did, only Merc. Whether they do in 2015 or not is a different matter.

Yes that is how it works for well established facts from last season which are only a search away in the previous year's car threads - we don't need to regress the conversation over and over to last year, talk about this year, all of last year's details are in the PY threads.

[Moose]

Yes that is how it works for well established facts from last season which are only a search away in the previous year's car threads - we don't need to regress the conversation over and over to last year, talk about this year, all of last year's details are in the PY threads.

Okay, then we're agreed, the layout of the Ferrari engine in 2014 is as we can find out from a quick search:


That is, lacking a turbo compressor on the front of the engine. That is, not with a split turbo.

[ME4ME]

That is, lacking a turbo compressor on the front of the engine. That is, not with a split turbo.

You say the compressor must be in front of the engine to be split? That definition is just plain wrong.

Because Ferrari has placed the MGU-H in between the turbine and compressor, they have split them up with an significant distance in between, thus it's a split design.

The definition of a 'split' turbo is whether the Compressor wheel and Turbine wheel are on the same solid shaft or on seperate shafts with some sort of drive-link, not whether the MGUH is in the middle or not. A turbo with the MGUH in the middle can have a single shaft, I know because I have seen it.

Source of definition? Doesn't that make the Merc "non-split" as well then? Haven't seen any drive-link on their design.

I guess the definition of "split" is debatable, but for me the distance between is what matters anyway. We might have to agree to disagree

Back on topic: What do you guys make of the picture on page 15 showing the turbine and compressor back together, with the MGU-H in front of them, as well as a log-style exhaust? I thought it was quite significant, if true.

[Sevach]

Split turbo doesn't mean "just like Mercedes did", if there is separation between the turbine and the compressor it's split.

[Xwang]

So if the image in page 15 is correct, they are moving the compressor which in 2014 was in the middle of the V to the back of the engine. Have I understood correctly? Why are they doing that? Do they maybe need a greater compressor? I thought that the problem (if any with the ICE) was the smaller than optimum turbine, not the compressor dimension. Any idea?

[Alexgtt]

Split turbo doesn't mean "just like Mercedes did", if there is separation between the turbine and the compressor it's split.

Absolutely correct. The shaft connecting exhaust turbine from compressor turbine has to be ONE SHAFT according to the rules. There are no couplings/joints. Therefore the definition of split turbo in this case means turbos without compressor and exhaust bodies mounted on a common core.

If there's an MGUH between the compressor and exhaust turbines on a common shaft it's a split turbo, be it by 10cms or 100cms.

If you remember, one of Mercs biggest headaches with their design was shaft flex over the distance on a common shaft.

[aleks_ader]

Split ERSA in common sens aka compressor and turbine on its onwn seperate axis is NOT allowable accordigly rules.

Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre line. The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity, an electrical motor generator (MGU-H) may be directly coupled to it

So definition of Merc "split-design" describes unconventional position of MGU unit between exhaust an compressor on same axis. So Ferrari accordingly did run split turbo, but much lees radical as Merc one. Case closed.

[Kalsi]

Not another person who is not up to date? ferrari DO run a split turbo. and that is 100% fact. Not quite as split as the Merc one, but still split. renault run a combined single unit. Google it and as i said earlier, there are actual photos of the ferrari unit.

I have to appologize guys... Expecially to GILGEN ... but i should also be gratefull to you and to ME4ME for the past video
In some way i was intending the split-turbo layout as the mercedes one... with the compressor and the turbine on opposite sides of the engine itself... F14T is not split in that way but is still split because theres MGU-H actually splitting the pieces...

Sorry for misunderstandings but as we all noticed by all those posts this was a thing that wasnt clear to much people, not me only

Mistery got cleared!
So what is going to happen in 2015 to this Layout? They are going to relocate MGU-H and fuse back turbine and compressor? Why should they?

[wuzak]

So if the image in page 15 is correct, they are moving the compressor which in 2014 was in the middle of the V to the back of the engine. Have I understood correctly? Why are they doing that? Do they maybe need a greater compressor? I thought that the problem (if any with the ICE) was the smaller than optimum turbine, not the compressor dimension. Any idea?

There have been lots of rumours floating around, but one of them is that Ferrari will be running both a larger turbine and a larger compressor. The larger compressor in the vee would force the turbocharger higher on the engine.

So, the compressor being behind the engine allows the unit to be lowered. The diagram to which you refer also indicates the MGUH ahead of the compressor, instead of between the compressor and turbine. This will help keep the exhaust lengths relatively short, and keep tthe whole PU compact.

[aleks_ader]

So if the image in page 15 is correct, they are moving the compressor which in 2014 was in the middle of the V to the back of the engine. Have I understood correctly? Why are they doing that? Do they maybe need a greater compressor? I thought that the problem (if any with the ICE) was the smaller than optimum turbine, not the compressor dimension. Any idea?

There have been lots of rumours floating around, but one of them is that Ferrari will be running both a larger turbine and a larger compressor. The larger compressor in the vee would force the turbocharger higher on the engine.

So, the compressor being behind the engine allows the unit to be lowered. The diagram to which you refer also indicates the MGUH ahead of the compressor, instead of between the compressor and turbine. This will help keep the exhaust lengths relatively short, and keep tthe whole PU compact.

Also they could move MGU-H inside clutch bell with drop gear assembly... Like they did with ERS-K or MGU-K. Then you move oil tank in common position infront engine and redesign clutc&bell case to accommodate structure to the free space and its relocated "bigger" turbo assembly. Also that you coul literally feed ERS-H direct into ERS-K (+ CE off-course). A lot of IF...

[arahman_93]

Ill take over from Alonso as ambassador of peace for the minute haha . This is a great illustration of the overview of the power units done by (matt Somerfield).


http://somersf1.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/ ... cture.html

[bonjon1979]

Ill take over from Alonso as ambassador of peace for the minute haha . This is a great illustration of the overview of the power units done by (matt Somerfield).
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R4I19c6Bdqk/U ... erview.jpg

http://somersf1.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/ ... cture.html

Can't see how ferrari can cool their air that much with inter cooler where it is.

[henra]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R4I19c6Bdqk/U ... erview.jpg

Great Illustration!
The funny Thing is even at first glance the Mercedes solution is striking as simple, effective and clever with the fewest twisted connections and bends and the best Separation of hot and cold stuff...

One really has to wonder if Renault and Ferrari are simply to proud to admit defeat and copy that or if there are serious downsides to the Merc arrangement of all the stuff. At first glamce I can see none.
Kudos to the guy at Merc that came up with that layout.

[TechF1]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R4I19c6Bdqk/U ... erview.jpg

One really has to wonder if Renault and Ferrari are simply to proud to admit defeat and copy that or if there are serious downsides to the Merc arrangement of all the stuff. At first glamce I can see none.
Kudos to the guy at Merc that came up with that layout.

The big problem that prevents copying are the numbers of the tokens (i.m.h.o):