Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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aleks_ader
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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atanatizante wrote:Don`t know it`s the right thread but nonetheless I`ll drop it here ...

On other forum there are many voices which are saying the revival of Ferrari is due the following factors:

1. First and foremost they improved their ERS so much that now they could deploy almost anytime all the max. 160HP allowed by the rules, and responsible for that is their new and more efficient MGU-H.
2. Then their new software for power management has been doing great steps forward, this being one of their issues last year.
3. Many think their ERS is now the class of the field, outpacing Merc one, hence allowing them (together with their new power management software) to save more fuel than Merc team even though we don`t see that in the race fuel consumption graphics.
4. A new an powerful fuel formula, something that it`s going to pop somewhere this year or the following years, combined with the added fuel saved by the much improved ERS, are responsible for a much powerful ICE, hence their improved top speeds traps but mostly their top speed sector traps.

Sounds realistic or not?
To me that is pretty reasonble guess. And probably same as any other manufacturer.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

Fer.Fan
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Fer.Fan
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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atanatizante
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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atanatizante wrote:
4. A new and more powerful fuel formula, something that it`s going to pop somewhere this year or the following years, combined with the added fuel saved by the much improved ERS, are responsible for a much powerful ICE, hence their improved top speeds traps but mostly their top speed sector traps.
1. I think the part of much powerful ICE is down to the rule:

5.1.5. Below 10500rpm the fuel mass flow must not exceed Q (kg/h) = 0.009 N(rpm)+ 5.5., isn`t it?

So one could say that in order to have a more powerful ICE one key is to run it all the time over the 10500rpm bearing in mind the rule :

5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.


as the other way around they must run with a “less powerful” fuel rule 5.1.5, isn`t it?
Now you could say they couldn`t do that coz a race is around one and a half hour and had they race all the time with 100kg/h fuel rate they could run out of fuel at some point in the race …
But we must take into account that they are not all time on max. ICE power over a lap, coz they have deceleration periods, pit stops and coasting times … could it be feasible? And could someone tell what % of time they`re spending max. ICE power over a lap?
atanatizante wrote:
4. A new and more powerful fuel formula, something that it`s going to pop somewhere this year or the following years, combined with the added fuel saved by the much improved ERS, are responsible for a much powerful ICE, hence their improved top speeds traps but mostly their top speed sector traps.
Now according to the rule:

19.1.2 The detailed requirements of this Article are intended to ensure the use of fuels that are composed of compounds normally found in commercial fuels and to prohibit the use of specific power-boosting chemical compounds. Acceptable compounds and compound classes are defined in 19.2 and 19.4.3. In addition, to cover the presence of low level impurities, the sum of components lying outside the 19.2 and 19.4.3 definitions are limited to 1% max m/m of the total fuel.

This is a very interesting statement IMHO, but nonetheless finally the fuel must comply with the 19.3 fuel properties and 19.4 composition fuel rules and the most important aspect for boosting power are the oxygen and nitrogen rules regarding this matter:

Oxygen … (units): wt% … (max): 3.7 … (Testing method): Elemental Analysis
Nitrogen … (units): mg/kg … (max): 500 … (Testing method): ASTM D 5762


Now another interesting aspect is the 19.4.3 rule which says :

19.4.3 The only oxygenates permitted are paraffinic mono-alcohols and paraffinic mono-ethers with a final boiling point below 210°C.

But this rule must be taken into account with the following rules :

19.4.4 A minimum of 5.75% (m/m) of the fuel must comprise bio-components.
19.4.5 Initially the bio-components are restricted to oxygenates. However, hydrocarbons (as defined in 19.2) and oxygenates (lying outside the 19.4.3 definition) or mixtures thereof, which have been produced from biomass, may be included in Formula One fuel as part of the 5.75% biocomponents quota, provided that a suitable analytical procedure is available for their quantification and to verify their biological origin. Their use in F1 fuel will be dependent on evidence indicating that the supplier is genuinely developing these compounds for use in commercial fuels.

From my point of view - as a chemical engineer – this above statement together with the 19.4.4 and the oxygen and nitrogen rules are giving some room in R&D for the petrol companies in order to bring more powerful formula and the proof of that is last year official TOTAL member statement which was saying that in 2014 they gain some 40 HP down to the new fuel formulas.

So another reason for the improved Ferrari pace could be also due to a better Shell fuel formula which comprise of – oder then unknown additives – some sort of additives like MMT/MCMT (Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl) or Tertiary-Amyl-Ether family additives like TAME (tertiary-amyl methyl ether), TAEE (tertiary-amyl ethyl ether), TABE (tertiary-amyl butyl ether) or improved ones like TAIBE (tertiary-amyl isobutyl ether) and TAIPE (tertiary-amyl isopropyl ether).
Those above fuel additives combined with lubricant additives Molybdenum Dialkyl Dithiocarbamate (MoDTC) or Molybdenum Dialkyl Dithiophosphate (MoDTP) and of course those secret nanocomponents in these additives which are are responsible for both powerful fuel formula and fuel economy & less mechanical ICE wear.
And one proof of that theory is Petronas which is responsable for at least 20 to 25 HP more than Mobile1 had provided to McLaren last year and that is according to an official Macca member statement ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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Advino116
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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atanatizante wrote:Don`t know it`s the right thread but nonetheless I`ll drop it here ...

On other forum there are many voices which are saying the revival of Ferrari is due the following factors:

1. First and foremost they improved their ERS so much that now they could deploy almost anytime all the max. 160HP allowed by the rules, and responsible for that is their new and more efficient MGU-H.
2. Then their new software for power management has been doing great steps forward, this being one of their issues last year.
3. Many think their ERS is now the class of the field, outpacing Merc one, hence allowing them (together with their new power management software) to save more fuel than Merc team even though we don`t see that in the race fuel consumption graphics.
4. A new and powerful fuel formula, something that it`s going to pop somewhere this year or the following years, combined with the added fuel saved by the much improved ERS, are responsible for a much powerful ICE, hence their improved top speeds traps but mostly their top speed sector traps.

Sounds realistic or not?
IMHO, another reason is might be because Ferrari deliberately fielded a less powerful ICE last year in order to control their heat output, which means they probably have a more powerful version which they further developed and are using this year instead. It might actually be the most powerful ICE now, judging from their top speeds.

Advino116
Advino116
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014, 13:32

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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atanatizante wrote:Don`t know it`s the right thread but nonetheless I`ll drop it here ...

On other forum there are many voices which are saying the revival of Ferrari is due the following factors:

1. First and foremost they improved their ERS so much that now they could deploy almost anytime all the max. 160HP allowed by the rules, and responsible for that is their new and more efficient MGU-H.
2. Then their new software for power management has been doing great steps forward, this being one of their issues last year.
3. Many think their ERS is now the class of the field, outpacing Merc one, hence allowing them (together with their new power management software) to save more fuel than Merc team even though we don`t see that in the race fuel consumption graphics.
4. A new and powerful fuel formula, something that it`s going to pop somewhere this year or the following years, combined with the added fuel saved by the much improved ERS, are responsible for a much powerful ICE, hence their improved top speeds traps but mostly their top speed sector traps.

Sounds realistic or not?
IMHO, another reason is might be because Ferrari deliberately fielded a less powerful ICE last year in order to control their heat output, which means they probably have a more powerful version which they further developed and are using this year instead. It might actually be the most powerful ICE now, judging from their top speeds.

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Blackout
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Do you think the current Ferrari engine has variable lenght intake trumpets? I dont think so. Their V-intercooler takes much of the space between the cylinders heads and each bank of these cylinders are fed by a single intake manifold, while the other engines have a big box shaped intake plenum (which are taller/bigger than the 2014 ones due to the new variable trumpets.)

The Ferrari V6 is similar to the PURE engine in that regard (single intake manifold for each bank in blue)
https://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/20 ... inline.jpg

Mercedes-Renault 2014 (green: intake plenum, purple: intercooler air)
Image

Mercedes-Renault-Honda 2015
Image

Ferrari 2014 and 2015 (green: intake manifold, purple: intercooler)
Image

Image
Craig Scarborough @ScarbsF1 · 19 Std. Vor 19 Stunden
Ferrari continue to use the water turbo intercooler in the V of the engine Image

Vary
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Blackout wrote:Do you think the current Ferrari engine has variable lenght intake trumpets? I dont think so. Their V-intercooler takes much of the space between the cylinders heads and each bank of these cylinders are fed by a single intake manifold, while the other engines have a big box shaped intake plenum (which are taller/bigger than the 2014 ones due to the new variable trumpets.)

The Ferrari V6 is similar to the PURE engine in that regard (single intake manifold for each bank in blue)
https://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/20 ... inline.jpg

Mercedes-Renault 2014 (green: intake plenum, purple: intercooler air)
http://www.servimg.com/view/14795526/1770

Mercedes-Renault-Honda 2015
http://www.servimg.com/view/14795526/1771

Ferrari 2014 and 2015 (green: intake manifold, purple: intercooler)
http://www.servimg.com/view/14795526/1773

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Sau ... 855615.jpg
Craig Scarborough @ScarbsF1 · 19 Std. Vor 19 Stunden
Ferrari continue to use the water turbo intercooler in the V of the engine https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCEwud8WIAEjgFJ.jpg:large
Ferrari itself said that they don't have variable intake, however they might introduce it later in the season if the advantages are higher than now

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Jano11 wrote:
trinidefender wrote:
Internet trolls being internet trolls. I comment most on the McLaren Honda threads because that is the team I support. However that doesn't mean I don't look at other teams and look at their engineering objectively. I just find it quite funny that there were so many people who were practically shouting their anger at Ferrari saying that they made the wrong choice sticking with front pull rod and now that Ferrari do well in a race all those critics have suddenly closed their mouth.
The best part is that you suppose that they are doing well because of the front pull rod setup, which might not even be the case. Anyway, as you put it yourself... internet trolls! LOL
At no point did I ever state that they do well because of their front pull rod. From an engineering point of view while 1 bad component can ruin a project if done wrong, 1 good component cannot make a project much better. To have a good end result you have to ensure everything is working optimally with no large weak areas. I just stated that the decision to go with pullrod or pushrod was not necessarily a bad one as it seems that the reasoning for it was aerodynamic and not structural/geometry or setup based. At no point did I state that it was a good one either....it is simply a decision they made.

f1rules
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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guess this confirms you dont need a anorectic body to be competitive in f1, a latina body is also an option, that rb compared to a chubby ferrari

Image

ferkan
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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I do remember Gazzetta saying Ferrari won't introduce them beginning this year because performance benefit and complexity are too high for performance gain.

I think it would be smart for all manufacturers be as aggressive as they can with parts of the engine that are going to get locked next year and could yield good performance gains rather then something like VLIT early in the season. Beside, could they implement it with the way their intercooler is set in V of the engine.

R_Redding
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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atanatizante wrote:following factors:

1. First and foremost they improved their ERS so much that now they could deploy almost anytime all the max. 160HP allowed by the rules, and responsible for that is their new and more efficient MGU-H.
2. Then their new software for power management has been doing great steps forward, this being one of their issues last year.
3. Many think their ERS is now the class of the field, outpacing Merc one, hence allowing them (together with their new power management software) to save more fuel than Merc team even though we don`t see that in the race fuel consumption graphics.
4. A new and powerful fuel formula, something that it`s going to pop somewhere this year or the following years, combined with the added fuel saved by the much improved ERS, are responsible for a much powerful ICE, hence their improved top speeds traps but mostly their top speed sector traps.

Sounds realistic or not?
It would be hard to argue against any of those points unless one has insider info.. Although Allison keeps saying the improvements are 50/50 between PU and Aero gains.

It is known that ERS specialist Wolf Zimmermann and combustion expert Cedric Cornebois joined Ferrari from Mercedes in mid 2014 ....so one could argue that we are now seeing the result of some of their input.

Rob

Manoah2u
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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f1rules wrote:guess this confirms you dont need a anorectic body to be competitive in f1, a latina body is also an option, that rb compared to a chubby ferrari

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Par ... 856521.jpg
true, and the sauber is doing well, too.

interestingly though, the RedBull can't get skinnier, and seems at the max of its performance.
Meanwhile, the Ferrari probably CAN get skinnier by quite a measure, AND doesn't seem it's at the max of their performance.
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while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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aleks_ader
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

bhall II
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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f1rules wrote:guess this confirms you dont need a anorectic body to be competitive in f1, a latina body is also an option, that rb compared to a chubby ferrari

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Par ... 856521.jpg
I think one of the keys to the car's aero strength is a comparative lack of smaller-radius curvature on the sidepods that's readily apparent when viewed next to other cars.

Any time air flow is forced to turn, it creates a pressure drop somewhere. For sidepods, this tends to amount to lift. The shape of the Ferrari's sidepods means that any line drawn from front to back will be pretty damn straight, which exemplifies a reduction in the tendency for the sidepods to generate lift.

Good stuff.

Image