Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

[giantfan10]

IMHO - This isn't a Rosberg thing, any driver lucky to land in a dominant car but ending up just behind his teammate is likely to get grumpy. We all recall Weber & Barrichello complaining about Vettel & Button. We could say the same for Alonso-Hamilton and Senna-Prost, they ended in tears too.

Hamilton has been criticised for complaining in previous years, I'm sure he'd be grumpy if he was in Rosberg's position.

Hamilton would never complain that his teammate is driving too slow

It's not the fact that he's grumpy or complaining, but about what...

so the fact that following a car ahead and trying to attack that car destroys your tires doesnt have bearing on this convo?..
look up some vettel quotes about the race and why he couldnt get to nico... it wasnt just about all out pace... he said as soon as he got close there was major understeer resulting in the destruction of the front tires.....
why would rosberg try to attack hamilton and destroy his tires allowing vettel to possible jump him into second place? this is still a team sport

[GPR-A duplicate2]

IMHO - This isn't a Rosberg thing, any driver lucky to land in a dominant car but ending up just behind his teammate is likely to get grumpy. We all recall Weber & Barrichello complaining about Vettel & Button. We could say the same for Alonso-Hamilton and Senna-Prost, they ended in tears too.

Hamilton has been criticised for complaining in previous years, I'm sure he'd be grumpy if he was in Rosberg's position.

Hamilton would never complain that his teammate is driving too slow

It's not the fact that he's grumpy or complaining, but about what...

so the fact that following a car ahead and trying to attack that car destroys your tires doesnt have bearing on this convo?..
look up some vettel quotes about the race and why he couldnt get to nico... it wasnt just about all out pace... he said as soon as he got close there was major understeer resulting in the destruction of the front tires.....
why would rosberg try to attack hamilton and destroy his tires allowing vettel to possible jump him into second place? this is still a team sport

You are right. Lewis has been a fool who went on to overtake Nico in so many races and won them, despite destroying his tyres. In Monza last year, he disregarded his engineer's call to take care of tyres and attack later, went for attack and got through by forcing Nico to make an error. He kept attacking Nico in Austin until he made one more error.
If a driver wants to win a race and championship, definitely he should not have the attitude that Nico showed in China. It is an assurance he is giving to Lewis that, if you are in front and a Ferrari at my back, I will forget about attacking you and try to secure my place.

[spadeflush]

There is some sense in what Nico said, regarding the tyres. I think people are taking the "ask ham to go faster" comment too cynically, without perspective. We dont know and never will know if Nico would have attacked lewis in the later stages of the race as he said he planned to. It does not mean that at the point of the radio message what he was doing (conserving the tyres) was because he had settled for second place. Of course, most probably he would not have passed Hamilton who is clearly faster that Rosberg but I am talking about that particular moment, and the way what he's said has been ridiculed to such a level.

[atanatizante]

There are some speculations on other forum that I`m willing to share with you guys for having your opinion on that.

Someone said that 2015 Merc PU has indeed gain some HP – not much over the 50HP limit – but that is not due to their new Bosch 500bar injection system and it`s rather to an increase in fuel consumption …

It`s a fact that in 2014 one of their big advantages was Ferrari and Renault having had many issue regarding both PU and ERS this ending to the fact that they were down on power. Therefore factory Merc cars need to carry less fuel and is speculated that they could start with 12 to 17kg less gasoline race depending. And that is worth somewhere between 4 and 6 tenth per lap …

Now in 2015 they have more HP but despite having a better DI system and even a more efficient ERS in general and MGU-H in particular (that could give them almost anytime those 160HP allowed by the rules) these things above mentioned didn`t cut fuel consumption more they`d have liked …

In addition to that they increased also the DF levels from last year – one reason being in order to have better rear tyre management for 2015 improved rear Pirelli tyres - hence having now a draggier car this added to the fuel consumption issue … and not to mention the rule for having a PU or ERS for 5 races they have to strength both PU and ERS components with a bad effect on fuel consumption from PU perspective, at least …

So now they have to carry more fuel into the start of the race but at least they are faster on the straights (one of their weak point last year) and have better tyre wear and balance.

But they have a price to pay: they lost almost half a second due to the increased fuel consumption and bearing in mind that the total mass of the cars was raised with 10kg from last year this led to more time loss over a lap.

Whatever, what is really interesting is the fact that in spite of of those losses they seem to have some gains after all, but what is more puzzling - in case of myself - is knowing they spent more tokens than anybody else and maybe they were spend more for safety and reliability reasons due to their 2014 issues … but I`m aware of the fact that another reason is the bespoke law of diminishing returns and that`s why Ferrari was catching them so quickly …

[mclaren_mircea]

What is happening with Mercedes? All their dominace vanished. I think Ferrari has la larger budget than team, and from here is the turn round. I don't know what is dr. Zetsche thinking, but he should ramp up the budget, Daimler's profits and revenues are higher with billions than FIAT-Chyrisler. They can't stay and wait for Ferrari to jump them. Their mother company has more power, more money and more engineering expertise than Fiat and Ferrari.

[Jordan44]

There are some speculations on other forum that I`m willing to share with you guys for having your opinion on that.

Someone said that 2015 Merc PU has indeed gain some HP – not much over the 50HP limit – but that is not due to their new Bosch 500bar injection system and it`s rather to an increase in fuel consumption …

It`s a fact that in 2014 one of their big advantages was Ferrari and Renault having had many issue regarding both PU and ERS this ending to the fact that they were down on power. Therefore factory Merc cars need to carry less fuel and is speculated that they could start with 12 to 17kg less gasoline race depending. And that is worth somewhere between 4 and 6 tenth per lap …

Now in 2015 they have more HP but despite having a better DI system and even a more efficient ERS in general and MGU-H in particular (that could give them almost anytime those 160HP allowed by the rules) these things above mentioned didn`t cut fuel consumption more they`d have liked …

In addition to that they increased also the DF levels from last year – one reason being in order to have better rear tyre management for 2015 improved rear Pirelli tyres - hence having now a draggier car this added to the fuel consumption issue … and not to mention the rule for having a PU or ERS for 5 races they have to strength both PU and ERS components with a bad effect on fuel consumption from PU perspective, at least …

So now they have to carry more fuel into the start of the race but at least they are faster on the straights (one of their weak point last year) and have better tyre wear and balance.

But they have a price to pay: they lost almost half a second due to the increased fuel consumption and bearing in mind that the total mass of the cars was raised with 10kg from last year this led to more time loss over a lap.

Whatever, what is really interesting is the fact that in spite of of those losses they seem to have some gains after all, but what is more puzzling - in case of myself - is knowing they spent more tokens than anybody else and maybe they were spend more for safety and reliability reasons due to their 2014 issues … but I`m aware of the fact that another reason is the bespoke law of diminishing returns and that`s why Ferrari was catching them so quickly …

Based on what we've seen on track so far this could actually hold some truth. Am I right in saying we haven't actually seen a faster lap time in the races than 2014 yet?

If this is true, then Mercedes need to replace Toto and Paddy, and bring back Brawn. One of my biggest fears was them going into 2015 and completely messing up the car. And the people I'd blame for that is weak management. Paddy Lowe's record of cars is average at best.

[ringo]

What is happening with Mercedes? All their dominace vanished. I think Ferrari has la larger budget than team, and from here is the turn round. I don't know what is dr. Zetsche thinking, but he should ramp up the budget, Daimler's profits and revenues are higher with billions than FIAT-Chyrisler. They can't stay and wait for Ferrari to jump them. Their mother company has more power, more money and more engineering expertise than Fiat and Ferrari.

It's funny how you equate increasing performance to increasing spending. Throw money at the car to give it more speed.

I think they will wait until they see the turning point. They probably don't want to do a knee jerk reaction and go all out then Ferrari throws them a curve ball.


As for Nico, how long is his contract?
I can see him only going to the end of 2016 if Lewis continues to overshadow him. He can possibly go to Ferrari or to Mclaren, depending on if Alonso squeezes Button in 2016 when the mclaren is much better.

[De Jokke]

Guys, do you think Lewis is pondering a move to Ferrari?

He still hasn't signed and I'm afraid that he is delaying the signing by checking out Ferrari's progress (and making '80 pages to read' excuses).
Maybe he is thinking that Merc's magic is starting to wear out?

I hope I'm wrong as I would hate it that he would leave merc and go to ferrari.

Your thoughts?

[De Jokke]

Concerning Rosberg, I really think that the W06 is harder to drive/set-up and that's why he is taking such a beating as Lewis' is brilliant at pushing a more difficult car.

(+ I'm not saying the W06 is a bad car, it's great, but harder to get it into the sweetspot than the w05)

Or Hamilton was still very uncomfortable in the W05 (although I never heard him complain) compared to Rosberg.
Lewis really likes this W06.
HAM: "I’m obviously so grateful to have this beast underneath me, which I can really attack with"

[Jordan44]

Guys, do you think Lewis is pondering a move to Ferrari?

He still hasn't signed and I'm afraid that he is delaying the signing by checking out Ferrari's progress (and making '80 pages to read' excuses).
Maybe he is thinking that Merc's magic is starting to wear out?

I hope I'm wrong as I would hate it that he would leave merc and go to ferrari.

Your thoughts?

I feel the same way. Next year either Ferrari or Mercedes will have the best car, it depends on who does the most development. And judging by this winter, Ferrari look like they know what they are doing, and Ferrari also said that they're aiming for a title challenge in 2016.

[efuloni]

I also can't see a long life for Nico in Mercedes if he keeps being so hugely outperformed. Of course its very soon to say anything, but if you are gonna have a driver that can't even be a secure second place, maybe its better to look for a young talent and start preparing him to succed Lewis...

And I also don't think that Nico would get a race winner seat if he keeps doing a job like this.

Im still hoping he gets better, cause I still think Mercedes will win about 60-70% of the races this season and if we dont have Rosberg in his best, we wont see no title dispute.

[Moose]

I also can't see a long life for Nico in Mercedes if he keeps being so hugely outperformed. Of course its very soon to say anything, but if you are gonna have a driver that can't even be a secure second place, maybe its better to look for a young talent and start preparing him to succed Lewis...

And I also don't think that Nico would get a race winner seat if he keeps doing a job like this.

Im still hoping he gets better, cause I still think Mercedes will win about 60-70% of the races this season and if we dont have Rosberg in his best, we wont see no title dispute.

Yes and no - most teams actually wish for a situation like this. One clearly better driver, and one driver who's good enough to bring back solid points finishes, and 1-2s. McLaren stuck with Hamilton/Button for a reason, RedBull stuck with Vettel/Webber for a reason, and Ferrari stuck with Alonso/Massa for a reason.

I don't think we'll see the title disputed even if Merc only win 50% of the races. Hamilton's in the happy position that Vettel and Rosberg will keep taking points away from each other, and are in doing so, letting him romp away with the championship*.

* We're only 3 races in, so who knows what'll happen.

[Jordan44]

There are some speculations on other forum that I`m willing to share with you guys for having your opinion on that.

Someone said that 2015 Merc PU has indeed gain some HP – not much over the 50HP limit – but that is not due to their new Bosch 500bar injection system and it`s rather to an increase in fuel consumption …

It`s a fact that in 2014 one of their big advantages was Ferrari and Renault having had many issue regarding both PU and ERS this ending to the fact that they were down on power. Therefore factory Merc cars need to carry less fuel and is speculated that they could start with 12 to 17kg less gasoline race depending. And that is worth somewhere between 4 and 6 tenth per lap …

Now in 2015 they have more HP but despite having a better DI system and even a more efficient ERS in general and MGU-H in particular (that could give them almost anytime those 160HP allowed by the rules) these things above mentioned didn`t cut fuel consumption more they`d have liked …

In addition to that they increased also the DF levels from last year – one reason being in order to have better rear tyre management for 2015 improved rear Pirelli tyres - hence having now a draggier car this added to the fuel consumption issue … and not to mention the rule for having a PU or ERS for 5 races they have to strength both PU and ERS components with a bad effect on fuel consumption from PU perspective, at least …

So now they have to carry more fuel into the start of the race but at least they are faster on the straights (one of their weak point last year) and have better tyre wear and balance.

But they have a price to pay: they lost almost half a second due to the increased fuel consumption and bearing in mind that the total mass of the cars was raised with 10kg from last year this led to more time loss over a lap.

Whatever, what is really interesting is the fact that in spite of of those losses they seem to have some gains after all, but what is more puzzling - in case of myself - is knowing they spent more tokens than anybody else and maybe they were spend more for safety and reliability reasons due to their 2014 issues … but I`m aware of the fact that another reason is the bespoke law of diminishing returns and that`s why Ferrari was catching them so quickly …

Based on what we've seen on track so far this could actually hold some truth. Am I right in saying we haven't actually seen a faster lap time in the races than 2014 yet?

If this is true, then Mercedes need to replace Toto and Paddy, and bring back Brawn. One of my biggest fears was them going into 2015 and completely messing up the car. And the people I'd blame for that is weak management. Paddy Lowe's record of cars is average at best.

Just seen this on another forum:

"Commenter from German TV just said that Rosberg has told him, that in his opinion, they would have been faster with last year's car and apparently they still have some work to do for the season"

It looks like there may be some truth in those comments. The W06 could be slower than the W05 in terms of ultimate lap time.

[Juzh]

So how is Hamilton 6/10 faster than Rosberg last year?

[Jordan44]

So how is Hamilton 6/10 faster than Rosberg last year?

Track conditions, improved tyres, Hamilton making mistakes last year and that was actually his true pace, a combination of the three?

After today I'm not sure I believe it. Mercedes still seem to be quickest by quite a big margin over a single lap.