Mercedes AMG F1 W06

[AtOmIc]

They do not have more power when run at max power, but Mercedes is perhaps running 90-95% during races and Ferrari is more or less running close to max power both in race and qualifying. It explains also why Mercedes is still on 1.st engine except from hulkenberg who suffered from crank failure. Another thing is tourqe mapping. Ferrari can in race have more top end power, but Mercedes can still have an advantage on torque and drivability...

Mercedes is rumored to have a special "qualify mode" for their PU. They open the waste gate and run the compressor only with the MGU-H. Ferrari is working on to implement the same.

Rumors have it that Ferrari has had this from the get go.

No Ferrari had something similar but not full qualy beast mode like Merc. It has been said that they will implement the exact same "qualy mode" as Mercs somewhere around Canada (presumably it has something to do with the planned engine update)

Btw. this all is more or less hear say. So take it with a bowl of salt

[dans79]

clarify that destroying the tires portion please.....it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me....
traction control is in the drivers right foot.... other than corner exit where exactly would this tire destroying because of too much power occur?... i might add that the weakest engine on the grid would destroy its tires if the driver just floored it on corner exit.

It has nothing to do with traction control or anything like that. Tires can be degraded in two ways, abrasively or thermally. The common abrasive ways are spinning the tires, and high slip angles (sliding through the turns). Thermal degradation is what it sounds like, getting to much heat in the tires caracass. abrasive degradation can be "fixed" by not spinning the tires, and not sliding to to much. Piling on the down-force is the easiest way of doing this, but that has a negative effect of generating additional heat in the tires and thus leads to thermal degradation. Various things can be done to cool the tires, but even that has a limits.

Basically it's like a 650+ HP GT 500 mustang, all the power sounds good in theory, but if you can't get it 2 the ground without destroying your tires, it will never get used.

[giantfan10]

clarify that destroying the tires portion please.....it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me....
traction control is in the drivers right foot.... other than corner exit where exactly would this tire destroying because of too much power occur?... i might add that the weakest engine on the grid would destroy its tires if the driver just floored it on corner exit.

It has nothing to do with traction control or anything like that. Tires can be degraded in two ways, abrasively or thermally. The common abrasive ways are spinning the tires, and high slip angles (sliding through the turns). Thermal degradation is what it sounds like, getting to much heat in the tires caracass. abrasive degradation can be "fixed" by not spinning the tires, and not sliding to to much. Piling on the down-force is the easiest way of doing this, but that has a negative effect of generating additional heat in the tires and thus leads to thermal degradation. Various things can be done to cool the tires, but even that has a limits.

Basically it's like a 650+ HP GT 500 mustang, all the power sounds good in theory, but if you can't get it 2 the ground without destroying your tires, it will never get used.

my point was that the only time too much power is even an issue is corner exit and that is controlled by the driver....i cant see any scenario where mercedes would have 30-40 horsepower that they cant use based on todays formula and tires...of course every team manages their tires....
just like any other car on the grid they manage power output in certain situations... i highly doubt every last horse they own doesnt get used down the straights.....
basically i dont think tires are limiting the silver cars power output

[dans79]

my point was that the only time too much power is even an issue is corner exit and that is controlled by the driver....i cant see any scenario where mercedes would have 30-40 horsepower that they cant use based on todays formula and tires...of course every team manages their tires....
just like any other car on the grid they manage power output in certain situations... i highly doubt every last horse they own doesnt get used down the straights.....
basically i dont think tires are limiting the silver cars power output

I think tires are limiting everyone to some extent. Think about it a little more abstractly. Anytime you are accelerating or decelerating the car you put both thermal and abrasive stress on the tires to varying extents. This includes cornering as the car is undergoing angular acceleration.

So for example even if you have the power and down-force to take a turn faster, you will reach a point where the tires can't take the stress the car can dish out. Thus, the driver just drives to a delta to protect the tires. In my opinion this is the issue RBR had in early 2013, and why they ran away from the field after the tires changed mid season.

[atanatizante]

Guys, gimme your thoughts about this :

There are some speculations on other forum that I`m willing to share with you guys for having your opinion on that.

Someone said that 2015 Merc PU has indeed gain some HP – not much over the 50HP limit – but that is not due to their new Bosch 500bar injection system and it`s rather to an increase in fuel consumption …

It`s a fact that in 2014 one of their big advantages was Ferrari and Renault having had many issue regarding both PU and ERS this ending to the fact that they were down on power. Therefore factory Merc cars need to carry less fuel and is speculated that they could start with 12 to 17kg less gasoline race depending. And that is worth somewhere between 4 and 6 tenth per lap …

Now in 2015 they have more HP but despite having a better DI system and even a more efficient ERS in general and MGU-H in particular (that could give them almost anytime those 160HP allowed by the rules) these things above mentioned didn`t cut fuel consumption more they`d have liked …

In addition to that they increased also the DF levels from last year – one reason being in order to have better rear tyre management for 2015 improved rear Pirelli tyres - hence having now a draggier car this added to the fuel consumption issue … and not to mention the rule for having a PU or ERS for 5 races they have to strength both PU and ERS components with a bad effect on fuel consumption from PU perspective, at least …

So now they have to carry more fuel into the start of the race but at least they are faster on the straights (one of their weak point last year) and have better tyre wear and balance.

But they have a price to pay: they lost almost half a second due to the increased fuel consumption and bearing in mind that the total mass of the cars was raised with 10kg from last year this led to more time loss over a lap.

Whatever, what is really interesting is the fact that in spite of of those losses they seem to have some gains after all, but what is more puzzling - in case of myself - is knowing they spent more tokens than anybody else and maybe they were spend more for safety and reliability reasons due to their 2014 issues … but I`m aware of the fact that another reason is the bespoke law of diminishing returns and that`s why Ferrari was catching them so quickly …

Based on what we've seen on track so far this could actually hold some truth. Am I right in saying we haven't actually seen a faster lap time in the races than 2014 yet?

If this is true, then Mercedes need to replace Toto and Paddy, and bring back Brawn. One of my biggest fears was them going into 2015 and completely messing up the car. And the people I'd blame for that is weak management. Paddy Lowe's record of cars is average at best.

Just seen this on another forum:

"Commenter from German TV just said that Rosberg has told him, that in his opinion, they would have been faster with last year's car and apparently they still have some work to do for the season"

It looks like there may be some truth in those comments. The W06 could be slower than the W05 in terms of ultimate lap time.

As you said there is some truth between those lines ...
IMHO W06 this faster than W05 but this year the car is tyre limited and resembles me the 2012 situation with RB 08 in the first part of hte season, coz those 2 hot laps in the end of the first stint Lewis was doing on used soft tyres in China are more than a proof of car is capable of ...
In addition to that me think they are running in conservative mode even for the entire PU system bearing in mind the 4 engine rule if not their PU issues they had last year.
Another issue is their A123 system batteries that is running hotter that last year, now that they could run the ERS more time and more to the maximum 120KW allowed by the rules.
That's why one of the reason why Ferrari is closer to them in the race is the latter advantage having Saft batteries which is supposed to run much cooler hence their ability to run more with ERS engaged.
You could add to the equation the higher fuel consumption & the car mass increase and maybe you could see better the true picture ...

[OO7]

The fuel consumption chart has never shown Mercedes finish a race or approach race end with 85 - 88kg of fuel used, so I don't agree that the Mercedes cars were starting that light.

Given the comments from Lewis during pre-season testing, about the W06 being blessed with noticeably more downforce, I'd be surprised if it was slower than its predecessor.

[PlatinumZealot]

Unlikely, but very possible..

[NewtonMeter]

Unlikely, but very possible..

Isn't that a contradiction?

[MercedesAMGSpy]

I hope to see some nice updates this weekend, Mercedes not having a field day anymore like last season.

[Moose]

Unlikely, but very possible..

Isn't that a contradiction?

No, possible and plausible are entirely different things.

[Hail22]

Was hoping to gain some info on what Mercedes may / may not be bringing this weekend in terms of aero, engine updates?

[OO7]

Those upgrades were from China.

[Hail22]

Those upgrades were from China.

Checked the time stamp and realised it was from China, so i edited my post

[GPR-A duplicate2]

This is the only information I could see. No details in it, except for just the title.

Mercedes due chassis and engine updates

[Mr.G]

Not much optimistic.