Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[Writinglife]

I see Red Bull (Well, Helmut Marko) is opening his mouth again.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/32688667

According to the news headline, Red Bull are quitting F1, until you read the details. It just seems to be another case of Marko stirring the pot. I just take whatever he comes out with a large pinch of salt.

"If we don't have a competitive engine in the near future, then either Audi is coming or we are out," said Marko."

Some people might think Red Bull are throwing their toys out of the pram because they[re not winning constantly, but that's F1. One minute you're on top, the next minute you're at the bottom.

[toraabe]

They can switch engine manufacturer. Either Ferrari or Mercedes... Why not.

[Harsha]

They can switch engine manufacturer. Either Ferrari or Mercedes... Why not.

They wouldn't wanted to be customer teams they want to be works team and i doubt either of the mentioned 2 will do that

[ScottB]

They can switch engine manufacturer. Either Ferrari or Mercedes... Why not.

Why would either want to increase the chances of their works teams being beaten? I can't see them being in a hurry to strengthen a rival.

[ChrisM40]

Marko just sounds like an entitled Jerk. There are a relatively new team with little heritage acting like they are F1s most important team. Being rich doesnt make you entitled to a works engine automatically. If its what you want you have to convince a manufacturer you are worth it or make your own, if thats not good enough, leave.

[zeph]

Sore losers.

Would Renault complain if the situation was reversed? A lousy car/chassis/aero incapable of doing the PU justice?

[Manoah2u]

Sore losers.

Would Renault complain if the situation was reversed? A lousy car/chassis/aero incapable of doing the PU justice?

Marko just sounds like an entitled Jerk. There are a relatively new team with little heritage acting like they are F1s most important team. Being rich doesnt make you entitled to a works engine automatically. If its what you want you have to convince a manufacturer you are worth it or make your own, if thats not good enough, leave.

i get you don't understand the bigger picture called politics in F1.
and leave? yeah, let's get happy when a topteam leaves.

they say what they say because there is a reason to say it as they say it.
in other words, there's an 'agenda' behind saying stuff like this.
and even if Helmut might be concidered as a 'dislikeable' person, reasons enough to it, don't forget he's a
educated and successfull businessman whom understands politics like no other.

learn to read between the lines.

[zeph]

You really think I don't get why they say it? What you call the politics? Everybody gets that, it's not like you discovered something big here. It has been covered extensively in the press, too.

That still doesn't change the fact that they are sore losers.

[XRayF1]

You really think I don't get why they say it? What you call the politics? Everybody gets that, it's not like you discovered something big here. It has been covered extensively in the press, too.

That still doesn't change the fact that they are sore losers.

On the other hand, despite being branded as a 'sore loser' team, Marko/Red Bull does it.
Red Bull as a trademark, does not want to be seen as a loser outfit, so what would they gain in such a constellation.
What does this tell us?

IMHO, they recognized that they are dammed to win all the time. It is in their business model.
They can't see themselves being an upstart team again (after taking the hurdle called 'new engine formula'), because they can't afford it.
Neither would anyone in the world believe them, being an underdog team in the near future - because everyone expects them to win. Because they won 4 Championships.

So how do you tackle this situation?
You find a scapegoat. And this is Renault.

For whatever it's worth, I agree with RBR that Renault did the worst job on the new engine of the 3 manufacturers.
It also speaks for itself that long term partners, like the current Lotus team and Williams, where especially Williams had a long history with Renault, turned their backs on them because of the poor engine.
However, I really believe that you should not treat your business partner the way RBR treated Renault for over a year now.
Additionally as the chassis also does not seem to be that top notch anymore as Newey only does F1 aerodynamics as a part-time job for RBR.

So, I agree with Manoah2u, that is just F1 politics and self preservation speaking.

[djos]

I think it's b.s. To say the chassis is suddenly no good, RIC was overtaking Mercedes powered lotus cars with the worst PU on the grid.

Personally I'd suggest that the RedBull chassis is prolly not that far of the Mercedes and prolly slightly better than the Ferrari chassis.

[XRayF1]

I think it's b.s. To say the chassis is suddenly no good, RIC was overtaking Mercedes powered lotus cars with the worst PU on the grid.

Personally I'd suggest that the RedBull chassis is prolly not that far of the Mercedes and prolly slightly better than the Ferrari chassis.

Please be patient with me - I did not say it is bad, I just said it does not seem to be top notch anymore.
And I have to believe that RBR's chassis is better than Lotus'.
If only for budgetary reasons.
Remember that Lotus was on the verge of not being able to start beginning of the year. Along with FI and Sauber.

On the other hand, I also do not know any data which supports that RBR's aero is as good as MGP or FER.

[ChrisM40]

Sore losers.

Would Renault complain if the situation was reversed? A lousy car/chassis/aero incapable of doing the PU justice?

Marko just sounds like an entitled Jerk. There are a relatively new team with little heritage acting like they are F1s most important team. Being rich doesnt make you entitled to a works engine automatically. If its what you want you have to convince a manufacturer you are worth it or make your own, if thats not good enough, leave.

i get you don't understand the bigger picture called politics in F1.
and leave? yeah, let's get happy when a topteam leaves.

they say what they say because there is a reason to say it as they say it.
in other words, there's an 'agenda' behind saying stuff like this.
and even if Helmut might be concidered as a 'dislikeable' person, reasons enough to it, don't forget he's a
educated and successfull businessman whom understands politics like no other.

learn to read between the lines.

I fully understand the politics, that doesnt mean the average fan is going to think well of them for this.

Considering he is what you claim he is then it still doesnt make sense. He wants a winning engine soon, and then says 'we are off without Audi'. Audi meanwhile are like 'Wait.. what??'.

Just because Audi are successful in WEC (with a Diesel), it doesnt mean they can pull a winning 1.6 V6 turbo petrol out of their butts, with very much more restrictive hybrid rules attacted, and be competitive any fater than Renault can.

Even if he already has an Audi deal it still doesn't make much sense from a PR point of view. Frankly with all this b*tching I hope 2 things happen, Renault go it alone with their own team and beat them, and they get a 'winning' Audi engine and have a terrible chassis due to the loss of key personnel, and end up even lower than they are now.

[FoxHound]

I think it's b.s. To say the chassis is suddenly no good, RIC was overtaking Mercedes powered lotus cars with the worst PU on the grid.

Personally I'd suggest that the RedBull chassis is prolly not that far of the Mercedes and prolly slightly better than the Ferrari chassis.

There is no realistic way of ascertaining the truth. But it does clearly indicate that the engine OR chassis in itself doesn't mean a winning car.

[Gaz.]

It also speaks for itself that long term partners, like the current Lotus team and Williams, where especially Williams had a long history with Renault, turned their backs on them because of the poor engine.

For Williams would it not be a business reason as the director of Merc F1 owns substantial shares in Williams?

Was it not a straight forward financial decision for Lotus- a $26m Mercedes vs a $43m Renault and they were skint? Alan Parmane also said the difference in the level of support was significant, the Merc engine guy turned up at Enstone and asked where his office was, contrast that to phoning Viry... Parmane never said if it influenced their decision to switch but it is food for thought all the same.

[raymondu999]

Just off the top of my head - I wonder if RBR will consider reinstating the old structure Newey had at RBR, but this time with James Key at the head, rather than their committee system which they currently have.