Lewis Hamilton has set the record straight at Canada, coming back from the disappointment that befell him in Monaco. The Brit virtually led the race from start to finish, ahead of team mate Nico Rosberg. Williams driver Valtteri Bottas completes the podium
PlatinumZealot wrote:Rosberg I think is slighlty above Vettel's level when it comes to speed. Maybe slightly less race craft... but raw pace on par or above Vettel. I generally consider Rosberg, Vettel, Hamilton, Grosjean, Alonso the fast Qualifiers now.
I don't see Nico on par with Seb. Not even close. Especially not when it comes to single lap pace. Seb has more than once had his difficulties in traffic and he tends to overdrive his car and tires early in the race. His overtaking has also often not been great in the past. So race craft his probably not really his strength. Basically the 100% opposite of Fernando. But raw single lap pace wise I tend to consider him the Benchmark of the current crop.
Edit: His race craft was always good as long as he was leading a race. When things went wrong and he ended up back in the pack Seb's races were often eventfull but rarely brilliant.
In so far I was positively surprised by last Weekends Performance.
PlatinumZealot wrote:Rosberg I think is slighlty above Vettel's level when it comes to speed. Maybe slightly less race craft... but raw pace on par or above Vettel. I generally consider Rosberg, Vettel, Hamilton, Grosjean, Alonso the fast Qualifiers now.
I don't see Nico on par with Seb. Not even close. Especially not when it comes to single lap pace. Seb has more than once had his difficulties in traffic and he tends to overdrive his car and tires early in the race. His overtaking has also often not been great in the past. So race craft his probably not really his strength. Basically the 100% opposite of Fernando. But raw single lap pace wise I tend to consider him the Benchmark of the current crop.
Edit: His race craft was always good as long as he was leading a race. When things went wrong and he ended up back in the pack Seb's races were often eventfull but rarely brilliant.
In so far I was positively surprised by last Weekends Performance.
I highly rate Seb's consistency in qualifying but he was too much slower than Ricciardo in 2014. Got out-qualified 12 - 7 too much of deficit and average gap was significant too so that leaves some question marks. Qualifying Kings are never slow even in their off-years.
Such a shame we have a Kimi that is off form occupying the other Ferrari seat. Vettel is one of the drivers I like but I think F1 is missing that little bit of spice by not having Vettel against an alpha driver in the same car.
PlatinumZealot wrote:I highly rate Seb's consistency in qualifying but he was too much slower than Ricciardo in 2014. Got out-qualified 12 - 7 too much of deficit and average gap was significant too so that leaves some question marks. Qualifying Kings are never slow even in their off-years.
Such a shame we have a Kimi that is off form occupying the other Ferrari seat. Vettel is one of the drivers I like but I think F1 is missing that little bit of spice by not having Vettel against an alpha driver in the same car.
I have to admit I doubted Seb at Red Bull, putting his Championships down to Adrian Newey, but he has impressed since moving to Ferrari.
I hope Kimi can get his mojo back. He seems stressed, which is unusual for him...
If Valtteri does pick up Kimi's seat next year, I think we would really see some fireworks!
gilgen wrote:of course its too early but driving the same car and without problems by either, kvyat has been faster. and in case you missed it, marko has already said that ricciardo and kvyat have to prove themselves if they want a drive next season as rb have two drivers currently providing better results with their equipment.
eh?
Those comments from marko were taken out of context/poorly translated and were refering only to qualifying in Barca, where STR had an extremely quick car on light fuel. Ricciardo went on to beat all 3 renault drivers by 30 seconds on sunday.
Ricciardo has looked at least 4 tenths faster in both Q and Race pace up until canada (monaco was a special case, but i think in the end ric had quicker race pace there too).
I hope Kvyat succeeds & hopefully he can kick on with the confidence he has gained at monaco & canada. But he has not looked anywhere near ricciardos level this season.
Seems like a couple of people here have a real hate for Daniel Ricciardo and I don't know why that would be, unless you're a one eyed Kvyat fan ?
He's out qualified and out raced his team mate more often than not, and quite comfortably beat Seb last year.
Surely he's proven he's top drawer, so what's this "Kvyat is quicker than him" all about when the results say otherwise ?
I agree young Daniil is a great driver with huge talent and potential, and that puts Daniel's efforts this year even more into perspective when he's obviously struggling with the car, (or in my opinion the way to unlock the car to suit the tyres).
I hope Danill has a long and very successful career in F1, because I do believe he's the real deal.
But to suggest he's faster than Ricciardo, and even that Ricciardo should be out of F1 next year is just beyond belief !
I feel people are out to get Ricciardo because he convincingly beat Vettel last year. When I think about last year, it's not the 12-7 qualifying statistic that does it for me. It's how, even when Ricciardo was behind Vettel, he managed to hunt him down and overtake him with some very spectacular ballsy moves. Not only just once either. Never had I expected that. By pushing down and criticising Ricciardo this year, it puts down what he has achieved and makes it seem like his season last year was down to a fluke and make him look more ordinary. It also side-tracks from what we all saw last year and puzzled over. In direct comparison to Lewis, I never remember him being out-driven like that on track. Yes, he might have stuffed up qualifying etc, but in races, he has always looked very strong (relative to his team-mates). Even in the year Button "won" against Hamilton on points, Hamilton was the one who usually overtook his team-mate, not the other way around. In races when it was close and Button closed the gap, Hamilton defended his position successfully and brought it home. So even when he was struggling on pace, tyres or other kinds of management, that killer instinct seems to be always there.
Now Vettel IMO is very impressive in QF. Even when he was driving against a struggling Webber, I would often find myself stunned by what kind of laps he managed to pull out on that singular lap. How he was on the very limit. Perhaps it's all easier to do in a car with superior downforce and all, because it gives you the confidence other cars just can't. I remember Hamilton being close in the McLaren, but how he achieved his times always seems vastly different; Overdriven, very aggressive - almost a "do or die" attempt. Vettel in that EBD RedBull just seemed like magic: Smooth, easy - but still at the limit and what usually looked like the perfect lap.
It's hard to quantify how good he is at Ferrari. He looks very convincing against Kimi so far, but Kimi IMO isn't a very good yard-stick. For all we know, Kimi could be performing at the very same level like last year when he was slaughtered by Alonso, but now looks comparatively better because Vettel isn't that much ahead. It's all relative. I'm fairly confident however that Ricciardo in that Ferrari would be performing equally as impressive as Vettel. So would Alonso, or Hamilton.
Having that said, without undermining what either driver has achieved, it's good that Vettel is doing well at Ferrari. The sport needs it. And he seems to thrive there too, which is a very good thing. For both him and Ferrari. I think if Ferrari can keep improving their car, Vettel could end up being a very tough WDC contender either this year or next. I haven't written of Ferrari yet, at all.
Just look at 2013 when Mercedes was strong and RedBull came back towards mid season and dominated the rest. There are still over 10 races ahead and thanks to the tokens, there is still lots that can be changed. And the closer the engines are to the maximum potential (limited by the amount of fuel and the fuel-flow), the gaps between these engines will narrow further.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
Maybe it is because people are always trying to put down Vettel's accomplishments? I admit I was not his supporter during the Alonso years at Ferrari. But this first half of the season has made me his fan. He goes about his job with minimal fuss and is always able to qualify well and take advantage of it in the races. Vettel didn't take to the changes easily for 2014 season whereas Ricciardo did. Coming from STR didn't hurt as well as he was jumping into a better machine than the one he drove all these years, for Vettel it was the opposite.
I think F1F sums it up nicely.
The four-times champion endured a difficult 2014 season, though nowhere near as bad as was claimed by his gleeful detractors, who would have us believe it was as poor as Kimi Raikkonen’s.
Vettel’s new team mate at Ferrari makes for a useful point of comparison, as both struggled to gel with their new machinery, but Vettel coped considerably better than Raikkonen did. Even so, there’s no denying he was soundly beaten by Daniel Ricciardo this year.
Although Ricciardo came out ahead in the qualifying scoreline, in terms of lap time they were actually quite closely matched – the average difference between them less than a tenth of a second. Vettel’s weakness was that he couldn’t keep the tyres going at the same pace as Ricciardo for as long as his team mate could. That goes some way to explain why Ricciardo jumped his team mate in the pits on more than one occasion – and why he won three races while Vettel endured his first full season without a victory.
The final points difference between the two of them was inflated by Vettel having a greater share of technical problems, which sidelined him in Australia, Austria and Monaco. But he also threw points away with needless mistakes – such as the two at Spa which meant Ricciardo was once again in the best position to capitalise on Mercedes’ problems.
Vasconia wrote:This discussion is a nonsense. Hamilton won his first WC having the best car alongside Ferrari
IMHO, Ferrari was the best car in 2008. Otherwise I can´t cope with the idea of Massa fighting with Hamilton on similar machinery
Easy to answer, because Hamilton was between 2007 and 2013 a very, very irregular driver. And 2008 was a WC won by the less bad of two, because both made too many mistakes.
Seems like a couple of people here have a real hate for Daniel Ricciardo and I don't know why that would be, unless you're a one eyed Kvyat fan ?
He's out qualified and out raced his team mate more often than not, and quite comfortably beat Seb last year.
Surely he's proven he's top drawer, so what's this "Kvyat is quicker than him" all about when the results say otherwise ?
I agree young Daniil is a great driver with huge talent and potential, and that puts Daniel's efforts this year even more into perspective when he's obviously struggling with the car, (or in my opinion the way to unlock the car to suit the tyres).
I hope Danill has a long and very successful career in F1, because I do believe he's the real deal.
But to suggest he's faster than Ricciardo, and even that Ricciardo should be out of F1 next year is just beyond belief !
+1. I think that RB has a great line-up (unless they confirme that both drivers are not good giving information to the engineers), the problem here is the car, not only the PU which is awful, but both elements, chasis and PU, which are not working well like they did in 2014.
Listening to Daniel Ricciardo after the Canadian Grand Prix could have created the impression that he was reading a 2014 Vettel interview to the press. The Australian, whom some had perhaps somewhat prematurely declared to be the next best thing, had just suffered his way through a race that would make some of Vettel’s exploits in his last RB year look like a success. For the second time in a row the highly rated Australian was beaten by his team mate and finds himself in a classic role-reversal as like Vettel last year, he has no explanation for the fact that he suddenly seems unable to get the best out of his car. And what he has to say about it sounds astonishingly similar to the words of his former team mate.
”There must be something fundamentally wrong with the car. I’m not a whole second slower than Daniil, and I certainly haven’t forgotten how to drive.” We seem to have heard that before.
According to the ‘honey badger’ his car lacked grip despite the fact that he ran a higher downforce setup than his Russian team mate. The car’s sliding subsequently leads to higher tyre wear. Hmm, sounds familiar…
”I hope we can soon find out what’s wrong, so I can sleep peacefully again. I’m afraid though that we have to dig a bit deeper. It could be one of those problems where you have to check everything.”
Not only the interviews recall memories of Vettel 2014, so do Red Bull’s attempts at solving the problem. Last year Vettel’s chassis was changed no less than three times and the same will now be done with Ricciardo, who’ll get an all-new RB11 for the Austrian Grandprix.
Daniel Ricciardo, who is still one of the best overtakers in the field might simply be a victim of what happened to his former team mate. Last year it was Vettel, who had to make do with a car that was a definite step back from his former steeds, while even the lamest Red Bull was almost guaranteed to be better than what Danny had driven at Toro Rosso. This year he assumes the role of the German, and it appears he finds it equally difficult to let his talent shine when the car is not up to it, while the man he has beaten last year, enjoys a renaissance in a car that is better suited to his needs.
The Australian can take comfort though. His drop in performance is so far not nearly as drastic as happened to his team mate last year.
Before Monaco there was talk that Kvyat may not last the year, now he's convincingly thrashed Ric this year?
Jeez, this is the sort of crap you expect during the summer shut down. How boring has F1 become on track when the only thing to talk about is this rubbish?
The last point is the defining one. Also, while Vettel got a bit more competitive in the 2nd half of 2014, he was still outdriven most of the time. We shall see how Ricciardo fairs with a different car. The sole fact that RedBull (in both cars) is struggling to stay ahead of the Torro-Rosso tells me that the car has some fundemental problems, so any win or victory over each team-mate is only half the picture. Who can say if they are both running identical cars or not experimenting in finding ways to be more competitive or what path to explore in updates. At least last year, despite all engine troubles they had, they clearly had a very good chassis which allowed them to stay competitive, even against Williams with a much better engine (and lots of strategic mistakes by Williams too).
It's a bit like Button/Alonso in the McLaren-Honda. How can one say one is performing better than the other when clearly both are running very compromised cars and nursing issues to get to the end of the race? You can't. RedBull might not be experiencing quite the same low, but they aren't far off it either (compared to last year).
Also, Ricciardo compared to Kvyat - Ricciardo still has nearly double his team-mates points. Lets see how the trend continues. Another thing; Kvyat might not be all that bad of a driver either.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
I guess it is the same for the drivers. If you look at the championships of Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Shumi, and others you can identify moments where they made the difference and went beyond what is expected from the car.
In all cases I will not tag Micheal in anyway to Alonso,Hamilton and Vettel.
I don't think that was before September. Remember, that's when the clause was even activated. Of course one can argue that he knew it was coming, but Alonso/Ferrari/Restructuring was midway season too. It came together nicely, but I don't buy the lost motivation arguement, especially not between March and Summer. At that point, Ricciardo already had two wins with Canada and Hungary.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
and I don't know why that would be, unless you're a one eyed Kvyat fan ?
Remember, that's when the clause was even activated. Of course one can argue that he knew it was coming, but Alonso/Ferrari/Restructuring was midway season too. It came together nicely, but I don't buy the lost motivation arguement, especially not between March and Summer. At that point, Ricciardo already had two wins with Canada and Hungary.