Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[XRayF1]

It also speaks for itself that long term partners, like the current Lotus team and Williams, where especially Williams had a long history with Renault, turned their backs on them because of the poor engine.

For Williams would it not be a business reason as the director of Merc F1 owns substantial shares in Williams?

Was it not a straight forward financial decision for Lotus- a $26m Mercedes vs a $43m Renault and they were skint? Alan Parmane also said the difference in the level of support was significant, the Merc engine guy turned up at Enstone and asked where his office was, contrast that to phoning Viry... Parmane never said if it influenced their decision to switch but it is food for thought all the same.

Well, as for Toto Wolff's Williams shares, the decision might have been influenced by that - if only that they knew Toto, but please also remember that Toto gave back his voting rights to (I believe) Frank, so that no one could give him any --- about actively influencing another team, while working for MGP.
Nowadays, Toto is by far only a minority shareholder in Williams F1 owning some 5%.
some recent info http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117810

And regarding the Lotus deal - I mean, who can actually miss a business opportunity?
At the end of 2013, Lotus was a podium contender, while in 2014 they were nowhere.
So looking at it from both ends, the deal made perfect sense, as Lotus had (and has) to reduce costs and(!) get more competitive. Having an underpowered PU as well paying more for it, it does make sense to switch the PU supplier, doesn't it?
Secondly the MGP PU deal was struck Mid 2014, and in Autumn the 3 smaller teams (FI, Lotus & Sauber) went to Bernie more or less demanding more money out of the F1 business model. Indicating to me that despite the better deal Lotus got out of MGP, they were still struggling.

[FW17]

Red Bull supplier Renault, in particular, is currently engaged in a wholesale re-think of its approach to F1.

"Insiders say carrying on as they (Renault) are now is unlikely," wrote Bach.

[zeph]

Red Bull supplier Renault, in particular, is currently engaged in a wholesale re-think of its approach to F1.

"Insiders say carrying on as they (Renault) are now is unlikely," wrote Bach.

Link?

I said that about a month ago in the STR team thread:

I don't know what the chances of Renault outright buying STR are, but one thing does not add up:

Renault/Nissan are one conglomerate, and Carlos Ghosn is CEO. A few years back he decided that Renault's F1 success with RBR should be utilized to endow their luxury brand Infiniti with pseudo-racing cred and prominence. Why on Earth would they do a 180 now and buy a team to stick a Renault badge on it? It would make more sense to brand it Infiniti and make it a legit racing marque.

And:

It's not a conglomerate, Renault and Nissan have a "Strategic Alliance" there 2 separate companies
Renault dose not own Nissan, what it dose have is 43% (voting) stake in Nissan, control but not ownership.
On the other side of the Alliance, Nissan as a 15% (non-voting) stake in Renault.

I'm sure you are correct. But they have one CEO, Carlos Ghosn. If he decides to utilize the combined might of the alliance to push Infiniti forward as their global luxury brand, then that is what happens.

So it wouldn't make sense for Renault to incur the cost of owning and running an f1 team and then brand it Nissan or Infiniti,
Boosting Nissan's profile and overall share price wouldn't really be the best return on investment for Renault

By the same logic, it didn't make much sense to stick the Infiniti brand on the RBR when the power unit was in fact a Renault, and yet that's what happened.

I presume they think globally, and don't view it as a matter of Renault footing the bill for a Nissan brand. It would be the "alliance" (read: Ghosn) doing what is best for all. Infiniti has solid recognition as luxury/performance brand in North America, and the target has been to extend that to other markets. Buying an F1 team is actually a pretty cost-effective way of increasing brand recognition, and Infiniti would have much more to gain than Renault itself.

I don't think decisions at that level are emotional. Renault and Nissan will never be luxury/performance brands, competing with BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi, but Infiniti has proven it can be. The alliance needs to compete in that market segment, and if an Infiniti F1 team helps accomplish that goal, I doubt Ghosn and the board would be sentimental about ditching the Regié's history and name.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 28#p577328

[turbof1]

I'm having a nice chat with Chuckdanny over PM. One of the subjects recently was unsteady simulation and how crucial this is.

Red Bull has loads of issues, and not only with the engine. The aero platform does not work as it should, given the complaints of Ricciardo.

I believe this has to do with the unsteady simulation. More to be found on the subject here: http://mccabism.blogspot.be/2014/08/adr ... y-cfd.html

Crucial to note is that current software and hardware is insufficient on its own to simulate unsteady analysis. What happens inside the teams is that technical engineers have to translate steady-state simulations into unsteady ones. It means they are looking at cfd rendered images and have to be able to say "these, these and these aspects here are not happening in real life and will rather be this, this and this".

It means you need a very experienced, very intelligent person in place. I personally believe that for this specific role, it was not Adrian Newey but actually Peter Prodromou. Peter Prodromou was put on gardening leave last year, but before that he already had his hand in the RB10.

When the RB11 got to be developed, I think they couldn't use his experience anymore in the translation from steady-state to unsteady. Which leaves the RB11 inherently flawed.

This is one of these cases where one single person makes a world of difference.

[Cold Fussion]

This is one of these cases where one single person makes a world of difference.

I would put it to you that this is a textbook example of confirmation bias.

[astracrazy]

Well Peter was the head of aero yes, but i doubt he was the only person to sit there and look over that data? I'm sure there are others who would also look over that data but I would suggest Red Bull are most likely missing the leadership of Peter and (part missing) Adrian when dealing with such matters i.e someone with experience to correctly pick/suggest the next correct step

[ME4ME]

Observing Ricciardo's frustration, it would make sense for him to be looking at Ferrari for next year.
I do wonder if there is any contract in place that would bind him to Red Bull for 2016 though.

Even his personal performance took a bit of a hit. Not that he performed badly, but not at the same level we're all become used to see from him. Seems like frustration and emotions can clearly have an effect on drivers on-track (much like Vettel last year).

[Unc1eM0nty]

Renault 'destroying' Red Bull's F1 enjoyment - Dietrich Mateschitz

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119559

He's now saying they could jump ship before their contract ends in 2020, that's some way to "de-motivate your" staff Dietrich.

[Thunder]

That's the People i wouldn't cry one Tear if they leave F1.

[Juzh]

That's the People i wouldn't cry one Tear if they leave F1.

Ferrari must be one of them then.

[MichaelAngelo]

Redbull appear to be a team in big trouble right now. They tried to get a Merc PU for this year and failed. Now they are making all their factory staff redundant and making them reapply for their jobs! A classic case of a company growing too fast and promoting the wrong people into expensive positions.

[Hobbs04]

Doesn't this appear Renault is starving Red bull meanwhile hoarding engine tokens for a bit as they try and buy a works team. Logically Renault buys a team and develops their engine optimizing on all the progress in technology and has the best upgrades money can buy ala 2017+ as opposed to fully developing the engine in the present.

I don't see a ton of break throughs in the ICE but in the packaging of the ERS and cooling could b the magic bullet..... Or bullets.

[bhall II]

Red Bull boss Dietrich Mateschitz has admitted that he is losing interest in keeping his teams in Formula 1, amid mounting frustrations with Renault.

Ahead of an Austrian Grand Prix on his home Red Bull Ring track, Mateschitz has dropped the firmest hint yet that unless there is a dramatic turnaround in engine performance he sees little reason to stay in the sport.

In a lengthy interview on the Red Bull-owned Speedweek site, Mateschitz said that multiple factors had left him disillusioned with F1 – and it was only a matter of time before he lost all desire to stay.

Speaking about Renault, he said: “They take from us not only time and money, but also the will and motivation. There is no driver and no chassis which is able to compensate for this lack of horsepower.

“As well as that, the regulations for aerodynamics are so strict that our designer Adrian Newey cannot use his full talent. And we have also used four engines [on both cars] already. So we will lose grid positions.

"What else has to happen that we will lose our motivation completely?"

Not forced to stay

Although Red Bull has made a commitment with Bernie Ecclestone to stay in F1 until 2020, Mateschitz reckoned that there was nothing that would force him to remain.

"How many teams went out despite the fact they had contracts?” he said. “You can't force one to stay, when he wants to go out."

He added: "I cannot predict now what will happen it two or three years, who will go out of Formula 1 or will come in. I don't know if we will have our teams still. In F1, it's better not to make any predictions."

Ferrari switch unlikely

There has been speculation in the past few days that Red Bull could make a surprise switch to Ferrari for next season – but this has been dismissed.

"There is absolutely nothing in those [rumours]",” he said. “For 2016 we have no alternative to Renault"

Even longer term, after the Renault contract ends in 2016, Mateschitz suggested that becoming a customer Ferrari
team would mean his outfit was no longer able to fight for titles.

"You can only get an engine which is good enough to take points from direct rivals,” he said. “But it will never be good enough to beat the factory team, which supplies you these engines.

"With a customer engine you will never win the world championship again.

"And also when we see that we don't have any chance to win the championship because of the restrictions on aerodynamics as well… then we just lose the desire. We are bad at being the support actors."

No way out

Renault is evaluating new prototype engine designs in a bid to make the progress it needs.

But without a step, Red Bull does not appear to have an obvious solution to its problems.

"We are still hoping [Renault will get better],” said Mateschitz. “Hope dies last."

Translation: "I was never interested in competing in Formula One, only the exposure gained from winning in Formula One."

To a certain extent, that's maybe understandable. But, personally, I want every team for whom that's the case to leave. Such unabashed self-interest is killing the sport, because it results in senseless regulations that have been pulled in a million different directions. I think there's no better time than now to cleanse F1 of these influences.

[zeph]

Mateschitz' latest rants just make him sound like a classless jerk. And that reflects on the organization, too.

F1 can't afford to lose four cars right now, but I for one won't be sorry to see RBR go.

[Samraj_official]

I read this on TJ13:
"Those ‘interesting results’ could well be the latest dyno results that Renault was supposed to present during the crisis meeting with Red Bull on Thursday. Several media report that a large update including a new cylinder head, designed by Mario Illien, is currently being bench-tested in the Renault factory."