Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[drunkf1fan]

Those numbers are only how the last race ended, they include any changes made for any session already run. There will be a new list after FP1 that will include any changes made between last race and FP1.

If you look here

http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-1 ... ormation-4

and more specifically here

http://www.fia.com/file/28012/download?token=mhDPowDf
http://www.fia.com/file/28219/download?token=UFjInqCr

(not sure if those two links work, if not on the first link under the technical reports section it's the two pdf's that say 'new PU components'.

The two pdf's show that Button took a 3rd ES/CE on Thursday at Monaco, from the time it was used for FP1, Alonso took the third CE/ES on Saturday before for FP3.

That site has a similar page for every race and the pdfs get posted pretty quickly after a session usually. Most changes happen for FP1 or for FP3 as teams even if they want to take a new part for quali/race will try and save it from having to do extra sessions. With new engines around this week we may see more changes than usual for FP1.

It's kind of a shame that list is produced in the way it is, as you have many people mistake it for how FP1 starts. They should really produce and release it at the end of a race weekend and labelled better. IE those two lists should be labelled Barcelona/Monaco rather than Monaco/Canada.

[damager21]

So here it is. http://www.fia.com/file/28838/download?token=HSTHtTQO

Both Mclaren drivers have a new Turbocharger (TC) and MGU-H for this race. This would be the fourth TC and MGU-H for Alonso and Button.

Looks like 2 tokens were used by Honda to update these 2 components. Also, Alonso has taken fourth control electronics (CE)

As per following report, dog rings on Jensons gearbox was replaced
http://www.fia.com/file/28813/download?token=lGY7NJAF

A seal was broken on the gearbox of car number 22, driver Jenson Button, in order to inspect the gear ratios and associated dog rings for physical damage and as a consequence of this inspection to change 2nd, 4th, 7th and 8th change gear ratio pair and 5th/7th and 6th/8th gear dog rings for
others of identical specification.

[tuj]

What does the initial Canadian pace say to you guys? I am kind of surprised they aren't further up the grid here. I know this isn't the race thread or team thread, but Honda seem to be sitting on something they can't quite unleash, or every time they try, they get comments from Button like 'scary'.

I can't help but wonder if they tried to do something rather unique on the flame propagation front, as the key words I keep picking up on are 'combustion concept'. I believe Honda got a piston modification in the name of reliability fairly early on, no? Wonder if they are running a stratified charge that is getting locally too hot somewhere in the chamber? Hence they are probably looking at EGT's and saying 'no full boost'.

Are they going to sit on their upgrades during the Can. GP and just monitor? Or are they ever going to unleash the beast?

[J.A.W.]

What does the initial Canadian pace say to you guys? I am kind of surprised they aren't further up the grid here. I know this isn't the race thread or team thread, but Honda seem to be sitting on something they can't quite unleash, or every time they try, they get comments from Button like 'scary'.

I can't help but wonder if they tried to do something rather unique on the flame propagation front, as the key words I keep picking up on are 'combustion concept'. I believe Honda got a piston modification in the name of reliability fairly early on, no? Wonder if they are running a stratified charge that is getting locally too hot somewhere in the chamber? Hence they are probably looking at EGT's and saying 'no full boost'.

Are they going to sit on their upgrades during the Can. GP and just monitor? Or are they ever going to unleash the beast?

This "scary" theme from operators of Honda race-engineering applications goes back decades.. to at least the
likes of Mike Hailwood & John Surtees in the `60s.. & plenty of top-flite/world champions, on 2 & 4 wheels, since..

Is there a longstanding disconnect - between dyno-run potentials & practicable driving application at play.. here?

[Albrodpul]

[PlatinumZealot]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CG45rT_W0AAdQPV.jpg:large

That's the back of the engine. A new angle. Interesting.

Trying to look for the waste gate pipes.. Internal waste gates perhaps?

[damager21]

I think its times for Honda to track test the engine putting it behind some car if they are not already doing that. We have heard of how Ferrari and Red Bull in the past have done this.

Ted talks about it in this video from 16 minute mark.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... qualifying

He also goes on to say that Honda have realised now that they need to spend more time,money and people on the problem. Possibly they should have done this couple of years back.

I am sure the current situation is not great for both McLaren and Honda's brand image so they need to get their acts right. On the positives, McLaren is at least trying to gain speed by focusing on unexplored areas like reducing weight of its chassis. Be it change in color from Chrome to reduce weight or be it the new light weight chassis expected to debut at Silverstone.

Also as per AMUS, Honda is expected to use more tokens by end of July in the area of Turbocharger as they believe that they can find more power there.

The cause of failure in Montreal was indeed founded with exhaust problems, but that was merely the result of a problem in the engine, which would sooner or later ended in a loss. According to Honda the creeping defect also has nothing to do with the new turbochargers, which debuted in Canada. Rather an old problem that has only now come to light.

Honda took the appropriate modifications to the engine to prevent the problem. Since they only serve to hedge the reliability, no developmental token were attacked. Despite the stability concerns Honda is already planning the next use of tokens. Again in the field of the turbocharger. Since the Japanese see clearly the greatest scope to find more power.

This is kind of strange because in Canada they used one token to bring a new turbocharger design. They could have rather delayed usage of that token instead of wasting it I guess.

[PlatinumZealot]

This is kind of strange because in Canada they used one token to bring a new turbocharger design. They could have rather delayed usage of that token instead of wasting it I guess.

You got misinformed

[Andres125sx]

Alonso´s PU was damaged in the accident so he´ll need a new one in Silverstone, wich means another penalization

[Abarth]

Alonso´s PU was damaged in the accident so he´ll need a new one in Silverstone, wich means another penalization

/[OT]...what idiotic rules we have in F1/[OT]

[Cold Fussion]

Alonso´s PU was damaged in the accident so he´ll need a new one in Silverstone, wich means another penalization

/[OT]...what idiotic rules we have in F1/[OT]

Why is it idiotic? WEC, F1 and Motogp have engine usage restrictions.

[Abarth]

Alonso´s PU was damaged in the accident so he´ll need a new one in Silverstone, wich means another penalization

/[OT]...what idiotic rules we have in F1/[OT]

Why is it idiotic? WEC, F1 and Motogp have engine usage restrictions.

Because if the engine has been damaged by an accident and neither the team nor the driver has responsibility for this accident, nevertheless they are going to pay for it.
Go figure it is the penultimate race with the last engine and the driver affected is in battle for championship.

It is an idiotic rule if there is no exception for "force majeure".

[Jef Patat]

It is an idiotic rule if there is no exception for "force majeure".

I completely agree to this. Isn't there some rule that something can be done in case all teams vote for it unanimously?

[drunkf1fan]

Though, how many accidents have cars been in where the engine hasn't been damaged? I'm actually genuinely trying to remember and can't off the top of my head think of what bigger crashes we've had this year. There isn't for me much reason from the accident for the engine to have been damaged is there? I mean, it was a side swipe initially then he ended up going over the top of Kimi's car. He didn't go backwards into a wall, didn't have Kimi go over the back of the car.

Honestly Honda have been so completely full of excuses and coupled with the fact that not a single engine since the Canada upgrade has managed to last even three sessions.... it wouldn't surprise me if they know it can't make it through the next race weekend and have a convenient excuse as to why they'll take yet another penalty.

Alonso a while back said he doesn't care if he starts from the pitlane, why, because regardless of penalties they aren't scoring points in 9 out of 10 races and if they get points in the others it will be because multiple cars fail to finish, not performance. The teams to whom big points are available this year the penalties don't matter to, Renault will get some points but be effected by penalties on multiple occasions, Mclaren 25 grid place penalty, 364 grid place penalty and 10 stop go penalties... it won't make any difference at all.

If and when Mclaren have an engine that can compete with Mercedes/Ferrari, they'll stop getting as many penalties by having an engine that can finish race weekends, and thus again the penalties become irrelevant.

Did Button even get a chance to serve his penalty before retiring, seriously, thinking the penalties matter at all to Mclaren is ridiculous.

[djos]

The best option imo would be an IndyCar style engine makers championship and take points and prize money from them instead of penalizing the drivers!

I think that plus the chassis constructors championship would make a lot of sense.