2015 Hungarian Grand Prix - 24-26 July

[Schuttelberg]

yesterday rosberg proved why he will never win a world championship. on radio he is being told that hamilton will switch to prime and immediately he responds i too want prime . what a stupid guy ?. hamilton is reducing gap and gap to front is building but in last stint you want prime. its like a child goes for candy and another child asks for same.

Toto Wolff said that there were far too many laps to do on the option, so the prime tyres were heating in the pot. Plus, Rosberg felt he was more comfortable on the prime.

Personally, I think he was just trying to make sure he finishes ahead of Hamilton and dissolve all variants. But, I share your opinion that he should have gone for the win. Not for the first time that he and Mercedes have demonstrated that once they lose the lead or are pushed out of their comfort zone, they really seem to capitulate. At the moment, Mercedes have a distinct advantage in terms of speed on Saturday and Sunday. But, I feel that if Ferrari can close the gap a little on them, Vettel might start bothering Rosberg.

With a cracker of a car easily monstrous beast among the rest in the present era formula, Merc crew should be able to manage the drivers effectively. I just hope things do not turn into 2007 again. Ferrari will catch up eventually sooner or later and so will others too in matter of months. What surprise will the summer break bring back to this year's championship needs to be seen?
A few more incidents like Hungary means more headache for Merc crew. On the current point system a 42 point lead can evaporate away very fast and not to forget the double point finish at Abu Dhabi. 2 more wins for Ferrari back to back with some DNF for Merc team (yet to happen this season), enough for Merc to hand back the trophy to Ferrari.

While Ferrari have improved massively since 2014, I think it cannot be denied that Mercedes need to make mistakes for them to come into the picture as far as competing for the championships is concerned. DNF's in today's day and age of F1 are few and far in between. I don't think we'll see as chaotic a 'dry race' as we saw yesterday for the remainder of the year. I hope I'm wrong, but realistically speaking I expect Mercedes to get their act together with the starts. Even if they keep having poor starts, on wide circuits where there is plenty of overtaking opportunity they should easily manage 1-2's for most of the races. I don't think Hamilton will bottle the way he did again in the season, he's too good a driver for that.

What I could deduce from yesterday was that the Ferrari is a better car in clear air, and if they have track position on the Mercs, then they can preserve their tyres and keep the faster Mercs at bay. Obviously, what I'm saying is very track specific. I would also not be so sure that Ferrari can eventually catch up. I don't think the Mercedes has used any of it's engine tokens, while Ferrari have and as we saw in Canada, the Mercedes minor upgrade was able to trump the Ferrari major upgrade. From what I understand, they are able to run their cars on 'qualifying mode' longer than before without using the tokens or making the car unreliable. But, no one knows what's in the pipe line and while we all hope that Ferrari can catch up soon to make races consistently exciting, it's a situation where we wait and watch. At least there is hope.

Having said all this, Mercedes definitely aren't looking as immortal as last year. While the job they've done with their PU and chassis is one that should be lauded, their strategy team is one that could learn from the likes of Red Bull. This, even applies to Ferrari. I for one, didn't understand why Ferrari didn't opt to run the harder compound in the second stint yesterday. They had no reason to worry about Hamilton, as Vettel had a 15+ second lead over him + free air while Hamilton battled the pack, including his own team mate and Raikkonen. With Rosberg on the harder tyre, they also protected themselves from any SC periods, there by covering off any threat from Rosberg over the race distance. However, Rosberg and Mercedes scored an own goal by fitting the primes on Rosberg in his final stint, thus balancing the apple cart. If, Ferrari are to compete with Mercedes, they need to start reacting to such situations better. Mercedes on the other hand seem absolutely paralyzed the second they see a SC board.

Mercedes also have a serious issue with their second driver in Rosberg. While at the moment he seems like the perfect person to partner Hamilton, I think his weaknesses will begin to magnify once there's some competition from other teams. Firstly, to my absolute surprise, specially after last year, Rosberg has been out-qualified 9-1. What's worse is that IIRC, he's been done so by a margin of more than 0.3 seconds 5-6 times. Sometimes, the gaps have exceeded half a second.
Secondly, Rosberg lacks a serious amount of race craft. His tyre choices in tricky circumstances are never inspired and he seems more inclined to know Hamilton's tactics. Now, every sport has a certain degree of strategy and mind games to it, but Rosberg takes it to another level. Let's face it, on pure speed he's not going to beat Hamilton. I doubt anyone could. But, over the course of the season, if you grab all your opportunities, you will give yourself a chance against even the very best. Rosberg has himself admitted that he's working on race craft, but in my book, he needs to stop thinking about the gap to Hamilton in every corner and actually try to WIN races when the opportunity presents itself. The gap and the points will take care of themselves.
Lastly, Hamilton is not devoid of some goof ups. But, he's one of the best we have when it comes to wheel to wheel stuff. Yesterday, was the perfect example of a weekend where Hamilton makes winning championships difficult for himself and instead of capitalizing on it, Rosberg got himself into a clumsy situation. Apart from Bahrain this year, where his passes were decisive and sharp, in an equal battle against great drivers you get the feeling that Rosberg will either relent, or break a front wing. I don't know how much work he's been putting in, but I don't think race craft is taught. It's learnt in the karting days, developed in higher series and by the time you're at the stage he is at, you're making the perfect judgement calls.

I don't think the alarm bells are ringing at Mercedes yet, I don't think Ferrari are anywhere near where they want to be, but you get the feeling that the guys at Brackley are getting a bit arrogant and full of themselves. And in sport, when that begins to happen it's generally the first step towards the fall.

[Mandrake]

I think it's a valid move. Every time Ricciardo did the move, there was plenty of room vs the cars he was overtaking. If the other don't want to have Ricciardo shoot up the inside, they are free to cover the inside line (as Hamilton did; though he had cold tires which resulted in the lock and straight trajectory). Rosberg shouldn't have "chopped" off Ricciardo, ultimately, he paid the price because of it. If Hamilton had "chopped" Rosbergs front wing in Bahrain 2014, he would have likely suffered the exact same consequence as Rosberg did in Ricciardos case.

Ricciardo is an excellent overtaker IMO. Yes, some of the moves are ballsy, but they need to be at times. Last year, he showed some very good maneuvers, one of them being when he overtook Vettel on the track by throwing him a dummy, then going on the other side to complete the overtake. They all can't go right, but he's pulled off more overtakes than overtakes that went wrong.

I would not call it ballsy......vs. Rosberg it was a pure divebomb. Rosberg did not need to cover the inside because RiC was too far back. Rosberg really needed to avoid RiC or he'd been picked up by him and smashed to pieces.

Against Hamilton RiC was on better tires and in a better situation. That was a good move with a car that was better in that particular situation.

I guess RIC was just fed up with not being able to follow the Merc on the straights and saw his chances of moving up the order diminishing, thus opting for an overly ambitious move. Granted, Nico could have been that extra bit careful, but giving RIC on the Soft tires any more space on the inside could have meant he'd be passed come the next corner. Just sad that a flawless (a bit slow, yes) drive from Rosberg robbed him of the deserved point advantage against Hamilton, and again incredible how lucky Hamilton was on a track that usually punishes being stuck in the midfield much harder. I mean, how can you change your front wing AND serve a drive-through after a SC period and still score big points? In Hungary?

[Shrieker]

There's no need to leave him enough room. He was dead behind, he should break.

Ric should have certainly gotten a penalty and the Ham penalty was avoidable too. If everyone drove like Ric there would have been at least 2 more crashes on him...

Looking at the gif, i'm baffled as to how can one say Ricciardo should've 'braked'. He had every right to be where he was, they're racing. And there is no more room to his left to go, so he can't. On the contrary, Rosberg has the entire track to his right but closes the door on Dan to prevent him getting a good run - and the inside line - for the next corner. Nico moves over too soon and causes contact, it is clear cut. He is lucky that he didn't get a penalty for chopping Dan's wing. He probably didn't receive one because it wasn't an out of control affair like Hamilton's was.

[SiLo]

There's no need to leave him enough room. He was dead behind, he should break.

Ric should have certainly gotten a penalty and the Ham penalty was avoidable too. If everyone drove like Ric there would have been at least 2 more crashes on him...

http://s24.postimg.org/kz9qvn3ub/Giant_Milky_Cowrie.gif

Looking at the gif, i'm baffled as to how can one say Ricciardo should've 'braked'. He had every right to be where he was, they're racing. And there is no more room to his left to go, so he can't. On the contrary, Rosberg has the entire track to his right but closes the door on Dan to prevent him getting a good run - and the inside line - for the next corner. Nico moves over too soon and causes contact, it is clear cut. He is lucky that he didn't get a penalty for chopping Dan's wing. He probably didn't receive one because it wasn't an out of control affair like Hamilton's was.

I said the same thing on reddit and got taken to town over it. Someone quote this at me from the racing rules:

If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.
In this case, the driver on the inside is free to drift out towards the outside on exit. While they are expected to approximately follow the racing line

I still believe Rosberg should have given room at the edge of the track.

[Shrieker]

I never saw that rule before, and if it does exist, I must say that is one retarded rule.

The simplest rule of side by side racing is you leave at least one car width. Which Nico didn't. Simple as that. Had he misjudged it by another 20 centimeters or so, there would've been wheel to wheel contact and they'd both have retired on the spot.

[SiLo]

I never saw that rule before, and if it does exist, I must say that is one retarded rule.

The simplest rule of side by side racing is you leave at least one car width. Which Nico didn't. Simple as that. Had he misjudged it by another 20 centimeters or so, there would've been wheel to wheel contact and they'd both have retired on the spot.

Exactly my thoughts. It is always up to BOTH drivers to avoid contact. Ric was already right at the edge of the track and Rosberg had a lot of space on his right. It's pretty clear cut IMO.

[SectorOne]

I never saw that rule before, and if it does exist, I must say that is one retarded rule.

The simplest rule of side by side racing is you leave at least one car width. Which Nico didn't. Simple as that. Had he misjudged it by another 20 centimeters or so, there would've been wheel to wheel contact and they'd both have retired on the spot.

This is formula 1, normal rules do not apply.

The fact of the matter is that Ricciardo should have backed off, he only had his front wing in line with Rosberg and Rosberg had every right to claim the racing line there.

But then you can discuss the etiquette of F1 overtaking which is completely different from other racing series.
Like the above, which is frowned upon in other series.

But in F1 Rosberg was in the right to use all of the track. Because that´s normal protocol in Formula 1.

[Moose]

If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.
In this case, the driver on the inside is free to drift out towards the outside on exit. While they are expected to approximately follow the racing line

That is not a rule in F1's sporting regulations.

This however, is:

16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and subsequently investigated) which :
...
d) Caused a collision
e) Forced a driver off track
f) Illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver.
g) Illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

The fact that the stewards tend not to penalise drivers for pushing another wide at corner exit is neither here nor there, it definitely is against the rules.

[Manoah2u]

imho this was rosbergs fault. Ricciardo overtook rosberg and was in front of him, then rosberg took the inside line back and passed ricciardo no sweat back. Rosberg could have easily kept his position and defend against ricciardo by slowly moving to the left, instead he just went to the left as if there was no car there and ruined his own race - and at the same time take ricciardo's chance of winning the gp.

he could have kept just a tiny bit more to the right and slowly move to the left to block ricciardo from overtaking, forcing him around the merc instead of take the inside. either way i was quite disappointed in both mercs yesterday.

If rosberg did not have a puncture i'd feel he would have deserved a penalty. Instead he hurt himself sufficiently so i think that was enough on itself.

and @ the 'lucky hamilton' remarks:

=D> yeah, keep doing that.
hamilton had zero luck and made many mistakes which he admitted himself.
despite all that, the team recommanded him to keep pushing and keep going which as we all saw in the end payed dividends for him. that had nothing to do with luck. It was just keeping going. Anything can happen and everything did happen. that's not a question of luck. The only one driver that got lucky was Maldonado whom imho should have gotten a friggin black flag. No excuse for whatever it was he was doing on sunday.

[Schuttelberg]

I'm genuinely lost on this.

Incident 1 - Hamilton made contact with Ricciardo. He broke his front wing, came into the pits and got repairs.
Incident 2 - Rosberg made contact with Ricciardo. He punctured his tyre, came into the pits and got repairs.

In my honest opinion, I thought Ricciardo was innocent in both incidents and I'm treating both as separate incidents. But, why did Hamilton get the penalty and Rosberg didn't? I understand Rosberg took enough of a penalty by losing his place, but so did Hamilton by having to box again.

Can anyone explain this? I'm genuinely puzzled.

[f1316]

hamilton had zero luck and made many mistakes which he admitted himself.

In fairness, the safety car was quite fortunate at the time, allowing him to close up a 30 sec gap to Vettel.

And it was quite fortunate for him that Rosberg doesn't know to be more careful in such situations.

Still, both Mercedes made mistakes and Hamilton was by far the fastest, so from that perspective it seems 'fair' (if such a thing exists) that Hamilton should have been the lead car.

[Jonnycraig]

I'm genuinely lost on this.

Incident 1 - Hamilton made contact with Ricciardo. He broke his front wing, came into the pits and got repairs.
Incident 2 - Rosberg made contact with Ricciardo. He punctured his tyre, came into the pits and got repairs.

In my honest opinion, I thought Ricciardo was innocent in both incidents and I'm treating both as separate incidents. But, why did Hamilton get the penalty and Rosberg didn't? I understand Rosberg took enough of a penalty by losing his place, but so did Hamilton by having to box again.

Can anyone explain this? I'm genuinely puzzled.

Stewarding consistency basically.

Maldonado was penalised for causing an avoidable collision in T1, so Hamilton was too.

Verstappen v Bottas was considered a racing incident, so Ricciardo v Rosberg was too.

[Schuttelberg]

I'm genuinely lost on this.

Incident 1 - Hamilton made contact with Ricciardo. He broke his front wing, came into the pits and got repairs.
Incident 2 - Rosberg made contact with Ricciardo. He punctured his tyre, came into the pits and got repairs.

In my honest opinion, I thought Ricciardo was innocent in both incidents and I'm treating both as separate incidents. But, why did Hamilton get the penalty and Rosberg didn't? I understand Rosberg took enough of a penalty by losing his place, but so did Hamilton by having to box again.

Can anyone explain this? I'm genuinely puzzled.

Stewarding consistency basically.

Maldonado was penalised for causing an avoidable collision in T1, so Hamilton was too.

Verstappen v Bottas was considered a racing incident, so Ricciardo v Rosberg was too.

Now, they're two separate incidents. Do you think Rosberg's warranted a penalty from a pure racing perspective? I felt, Hamilton's did.

[turbof1]

Hamilton himself felt so too. IMO, Hamilton's case was quite clear cut.

Rosberg v Ricciardo however is a bit more ambigious. A case where Ricciardo got himself on the complete outside of the corner, and Rosberg not watching out enough. So one indirectly caused the event, but the other could have sufficiently done more to avoid the accident, especially given Ricciardo was almost standing still. Rosberg could easily have used a tighter line and gave Ricciardo more space without giving up the position. But again, Ricciardo indirectly caused the accident and Rosberg did keep to the racing line (as in: he did no strange manoeuvre). IMO, pure racing accident.

[Schuttelberg]

Hamilton himself felt so too. IMO, Hamilton's case was quite clear cut.

Rosberg v Ricciardo however is a bit more ambigious. A case where Ricciardo got himself on the complete outside of the corner, and Rosberg not watching out enough. So one indirectly caused the event, but the other could have sufficiently done more to avoid the accident, especially given Ricciardo was almost standing still. Rosberg could easily have used a tighter line and gave Ricciardo more space without giving up the position. But again, Ricciardo indirectly caused the accident and Rosberg did keep to the racing line (as in: he did no strange manoeuvre). IMO, pure racing accident.

Roger! Understood that.

What I don't understand is that Rosberg still had the exit speed to keep Ricciardo behind him, so why did he feel the need to squeeze him and force him to come off the throttle? I guess, it's a lesson for the future. May be, it's just a habit. Not blaming just Rosberg, I've seen a lot of them do this.