2015 Hungarian Grand Prix - 24-26 July

[MercedesAMGSpy]

Rosberg shouldn't be in this position at all, ok he loses a place, big deal, you are infront of Hamilton and can take the lead in the championship. He should be the intelligent thinker people say he is, but he failed to capitalise when the big opportunity was there.

[Schuttelberg]

Rosberg shouldn't be in this position at all, ok he loses a place, big deal, you are infront of Hamilton and can take the lead in the championship. He should be the intelligent thinker people say he is, but he failed to capitalise when the big opportunity was there.

This is exactly the attitude that's actually costing him.

While you're correct that on that given day, he's ahead of Hamilton and scoring more points than him thereby taking the lead in the WDC and all that, the larger picture is very different.

Firstly, Hamilton isn't going to have the kind of off day that he just had on a regular basis. Hamilton basically had a lot of brain fade moments and wouldn't have finished higher than 7th, if Rosberg had been aggressive. Aggressive, doesn't mean stupid.

Secondly, on pure speed, Hamilton is a long way ahead of Rosberg. Qualifying gaps between them this year should be worrying as hell for Rosberg.

Where Nico really lacks is his desire to win. At the moment, his attitude is to sneak a WDC through Hamilton's mistakes or misfortunes, not actually win the WDC. His attitude yesterday should have been to try to win the race, not cover Hamilton off. Unfortunately, in a dominant car, he was pacing himself behind the Ferrari's trying to ensure he cuts Hamilton's lead by 3 points. Once Hamilton fell out of the points, he looked to threaten Vettel for a lap or two and after that once again seemed to resort to just keeping Ricciardo behind.

Rosberg was the beneficiary of a 21 (17 Hamilton, 4 Vettel) points swing in Monaco, is still 21 points behind Hamilton and only 21 ahead of Vettel who's had pit stops costing him points, reliability issues and one bad race.

From the evidence of what I've seen so far- Hamilton should walk the title, unless Ferrari find 0.5-0.7 seconds in the second half of the season. Even then, his lead is substantial. Unfortunately, Rosberg is just not driving well enough to challenge Hamilton. The real battle this year, is for second in the drivers championship. If Ferrari improve by 0.3 seconds, I see Vettel starting to annoy Rosberg on Saturday afternoons. There's no argument as to who is better between them on Sunday.

[zeph]

You guys are really bagging on ROS. I suggest reading Mark Hughes' GP report to get the full picture. ROS had understeer trouble throughout the weekend and never got in the groove. I agree HAM is the better driver all-around, but ROS has proven he can beat him on a good day.

[Powy]

I agree with Schuttelberg. We may criticize Rosberg that he was too aggressive here, but I think that's what he needed last year. In 2014 I had the impression that he was too careful and not willing to risk too much as opposed to Hamilton.

However, if I had to blame someone for the collision between Rosberg and Ricciardo I see Rosberg being more at fault simply because I don't think Rosberg had to drive so much to the left side.

[Schuttelberg]

You guys are really bagging on ROS. I suggest reading Mark Hughes' GP report to get the full picture. ROS had understeer trouble throughout the weekend and never got in the groove. I agree HAM is the better driver all-around, but ROS has proven he can beat him on a good day.

I have absolutely no doubt he can beat Hamilton on a good day. I also have no doubt that there are at least five other drivers on the grid that can do that (on their day). You don't just become a F1 driver and drive for a top team without being 'that good.' The point simply is that if he wants to be WDC, he needs to up his game, not just up his game relative to Hamilton. To consider that minus Monaco, he's won 2 grand prix in a Mercedes, as much as Vettel in a Ferrari is rather odd. The guy who won the pole position trophy last year is 9-1 down in qualifying. It doesn't sing World Champion (so far).

I have nothing against Rosberg. He tries very hard. I actually appreciate that. But, there's a lot of talk in the F1 fraternity about Hamilton being mentally fragile at times, but I often think that's Rosberg.

I haven't read Mark Hughes report. I did go through Rosberg's pre race quotes and I must tell you that he completely confused me with under steer and over steer logic. All I know is that on tough weekends, the great drivers adapt and derive the maximum specially when they're fighting for a world championship. Rosberg is at the moment, not in that bracket.

[zeph]

I haven't read Mark Hughes report. I did go through Rosberg's pre race quotes and I must tell you that he completely confused me with under steer and over steer logic.

And that is why I suggest you read the report. It will clear up a lot of confusion. Hughes explains succinctly why things happened the way they did.
If all you have to go on is a few soundbites, you may not get the whole picture.

[SiLo]

Totally agree. Rosberg just has not impressed me that much this year. He inherited Monaco, and was only really faster in Austria and Spain, and even then, Hamilton most likely would have challenged him there too if it wasn't for the start.

[ScottB]

You guys are really bagging on ROS. I suggest reading Mark Hughes' GP report to get the full picture. ROS had understeer trouble throughout the weekend and never got in the groove. I agree HAM is the better driver all-around, but ROS has proven he can beat him on a good day.

I have absolutely no doubt he can beat Hamilton on a good day. I also have no doubt that there are at least five other drivers on the grid that can do that (on their day). You don't just become a F1 driver and drive for a top team without being 'that good.' The point simply is that if he wants to be WDC, he needs to up his game, not just up his game relative to Hamilton. To consider that minus Monaco, he's won 2 grand prix in a Mercedes, as much as Vettel in a Ferrari is rather odd. The guy who won the pole position trophy last year is 9-1 down in qualifying. It doesn't sing World Champion (so far).

I have nothing against Rosberg. He tries very hard. I actually appreciate that. But, there's a lot of talk in the F1 fraternity about Hamilton being mentally fragile at times, but I often think that's Rosberg.

I haven't read Mark Hughes report. I did go through Rosberg's pre race quotes and I must tell you that he completely confused me with under steer and over steer logic. All I know is that on tough weekends, the great drivers adapt and derive the maximum specially when they're fighting for a world championship. Rosberg is at the moment, not in that bracket.

I think, in a way, last year flattered Rosberg. When in the lead, Hamilton is nigh on unstoppable, as he has been for much of this season, but it seems like when he is having to play catch up, he can get a bit rattled, which we saw yesterday, and indeed, because of his race one retirement last year, and some other moments with Rosberg, he was like that for chunks of last year too. A mixture of that and reliability problems helped Rosberg win the quali battle, but his record of beating Lewis in a straight fight on Sunday's is not good.

As you rightly point out, Rosberg is unquestionably a good driver, but he doesn't seem to have an answer to Lewis when Lewis is on song, and from the way Nico seems to act and his decision making process that we hear snippets of, it seems like he knows it. Does he think he can beat Hamilton on merit? Maybe not...

[Schuttelberg]

I haven't read Mark Hughes report. I did go through Rosberg's pre race quotes and I must tell you that he completely confused me with under steer and over steer logic.

And that is why I suggest you read the report. It will clear up a lot of confusion. Hughes explains succinctly why things happened the way they did.
If all you have to go on is a few soundbites, you may not get the whole picture.

Well, on your recommendation I did read the entire report and it was really long. Honestly speaking, I knew Rosberg was struggling with balance all weekend. He never seemed to find his rythm. However, even after having read everything, I can't help but feel that he simply doesn't believe enough in himself. I can remember at least 3 occasions where Hamilton has looked awful all weekend and then suddenly snatched pole. He did that a lot to Rosberg last year in the races.

Look, I get it that he went for an extreme set up, the strategy side of it, his reasons to prefer the primes (although like Hughes says, he was covering LH off) etc. etc.

My point, (and may be I didn't explain myself better) is a bit different. I'll try put it across better.

1) He seems pre occupied with whatever LH is doing. He needs to understand what works for him. Work and chip away at that.
2) He needs to think of winning. If he does that, he will automatically beat Hamilton. His defense mechanism right now is actually opening him up to Vettel and trust me, champions like that will eat you alive once they smell blood.
3) He needs to stop playing with his own head. I noticed there was a lot of use of the word shrewd and smart and cunning in that article. What that article convinced me even more is that he's trying to drive too much with his head. The right foot more often than not, is more than enough.

Lastly, it was totally Rosberg's call to opt for that set up. It's not anybody else's fault. Like I mentioned in another thread- Mercedes have a distinct advantage at the moment, an outstanding PU and chassis but they seem to have convinced themselves that they're racing themselves and no one else. More often than not this season whenever a race has been equalized, Mercedes have been caught napping. A lot of talk from Lauda as well. Like they say, champions fall when pride consumes them.

[Nathanael F1]

I might have missed it, but was there a definite confirmation of what caused Hulk's front wing to fall off?

[Schuttelberg]

I might have missed it, but was there a definite confirmation of what caused Hulk's front wing to fall off?

Kerbs apparently, which cause vibrations. It's suspected Kimi's failure in FP and the loss of camera were also down to the same reason.

[turbof1]

Hmm, so these could be resonance issues due the specific kerbs of Hungaroring? It could very well be that the material and density play a part in the frequency of the vibrations, weakening or gradually damaging the carbon layering of tinner parts of bodywork.

[Schuttelberg]

Hmm, so these could be resonance issues due the specific kerbs of Hungaroring? It could very well be that the material and density play a part in the frequency of the vibrations, weakening or gradually damaging the carbon layering of tinner parts of bodywork.

Correct. It's more or less the explanation I've read. Track specific.

[NathanOlder]

Ahh that explains Schumacher in 92 then.

On a serious note, have they changed the kerbs this year ? As I don't remember seeing wings/winglettes falling off in recent years ?

[Phil]

I'm genuinely lost on this.

Incident 1 - Hamilton made contact with Ricciardo. He broke his front wing, came into the pits and got repairs.
Incident 2 - Rosberg made contact with Ricciardo. He punctured his tyre, came into the pits and got repairs.

In my honest opinion, I thought Ricciardo was innocent in both incidents and I'm treating both as separate incidents. But, why did Hamilton get the penalty and Rosberg didn't? I understand Rosberg took enough of a penalty by losing his place, but so did Hamilton by having to box again.

Can anyone explain this? I'm genuinely puzzled.

Schuttelberg, very nice posts on the Rosberg analysis. Very much agree on that part.

About the incidents; While I do agree that they are rather similar, I am assuming that the way the collision took place played a decisive role in how the stewards applied their reasoning to both incidents. In Rosberg/Ricciardos incident, one could say that Rosberg had the position in the bag (through much better drive and momentum) and he was ultimately stupid to misjudge the gap and cut across, which basically ruined his race. Essentially, Rosberg was already damaged enough due to having to crawl around the entire track to be able to pit. What may also have played a role is that they felt Ricciardo was the one "out of control" - so any damage he suffered through it, would be by his own doing (he was the one who chose to overtake) and he suffered the consequence too, by having to pit for a new nose.

Hamilton/Ricciardo; it's the other way around: Hamilton locked up, so he was the one "out of control". I still think that circumstance played a huge factor, it happening on the restart after the safety car period. Despite that, his trajectory basically put him on a severe collision path with Ricciardo. IMO had that collision been less forcefull, perhaps a "kiss" to the side or a minor impact, I think it would have been classed as a racing-incident. The velocity of it though and the angle he collided with Ricciardo however made it that much worse, which probably resulted in him getting the drive-through for it.

This is just my 2 cents on why the stewards might have decided differently in both incidents.