2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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J0rd4n wrote:
Schuttelberg wrote:
J0rd4n wrote:There is no concern with Hamilton's engine, at least Auto Mercedes und Sport say. I posted the article above. I've yet to see AMuS report anything incorrect regarding Mercedes, the two are very close.
Not doubting you, or the source, just posted what I read from Toto.
Wasn't that straight after qualifying when they hadn't had chance to investigate? They were worried because the cause was unidentified at the time.
Do they know the cause now?
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Jordan44
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Heat exchanger defect caused oil to leak into the water. The article suggests it's a manufacturing defect opposed to an issue with the component design. Hasn't been changed anyway in the token upgrade.

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Shrieker
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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iotar__ wrote:
Shrieker wrote:Lewis would've taken pole regardless of the new engine. Just look at the average quali gap between him and Rosberg this season.
Simple science.
Maybe too simple :)?
I don't see how. The Scarlet cars were less then a tenth faster than Rosberg and in turn, ham has been a lot faster than that on average come quali time. And even if you factor in Monza which has a short lap, time wise.
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iotar__
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Shrieker wrote:
iotar__ wrote:
Shrieker wrote:Lewis would've taken pole regardless of the new engine. Just look at the average quali gap between him and Rosberg this season.
Simple science.
Maybe too simple :)?
I don't see how. The Scarlet cars were less then a tenth faster than Rosberg and in turn, ham has been a lot faster than that on average come quali time. And even if you factor in Monza which has a short lap, time wise.
It's rather pointless but it looks like the difference between Ros and Ham is exactly because of engines. Lauda claimed it was balance not engines but modified one is supposedly worth 0,1 s and difference at Monza between an old and a new one is what then? Negative and not remaining 0,2 s? Why is he contradicting himself like a not a smart person?
J0rd4n wrote:Heat exchanger defect caused oil to leak into the water. The article suggests it's a manufacturing defect opposed to an issue with the component design. Hasn't been changed anyway in the token upgrade.
It wasn't a token change but connection is that it was fitted on one of the two upgraded engines on a track where it costs the most. And people laugh at Renault and Honda? "It would be a disaster if reliability decided championship". One bad pistop in Monaco resulted in public apologies, investigations, changes of procedures and blaming people but here immediate failure of their brilliant engine is a relief?

Now Merc people claim engine gains are small and it's a "platform for future development" so:
- why did they wait for this revelation until now - after Q, why not arrive and say it's 7 tokens = 0,1 s? Now it's Ferrari making big gains
- why rush it ignoring customers and risk reliability problems at a big engine track for the smallest of gains?
- if it's for development it looks like running one new engine and 7 old ones is the best way to develop it :wtf: .

henra
henra
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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J0rd4n wrote:at least Auto Mercedes und Sport say.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

mrluke
mrluke
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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It is the only time I can remember not seeing Mercedes turn the engine up in Q3, HAM did the same lap time on every lap.

If Merc decided to be conservative with Hams engine due to concerns following Rosbergs failure that would explain why Lauda said the PU made a negligible difference and why the Ferraris are so close.

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atanatizante
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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bhall II wrote: Mercedes' upgraded PU is essentially a 2016 prototype, and it's likely somewhat detuned for reliability reasons.
...
This!
We have to admit that in many cases (if not all of them) a change for reliability reasons means a less powerful PU.
As they said it was made for the 2016 engine with their focus on what it'll be in the near furture (due to further PU frozen parts) the biggest area of development - a name here fuel and last but not least lubricants.
There is a huge potential lying under those products with all those nanoparticles which are essentially in nowadays F1 fuels and lubricants, with both benefits here in motorsport and road car industry.
Therfore they had to concentrate their efforts around combustion (chamber, pistons etc) in order to cope with a new rage of fuels and lubes.
Now you have noticed there are only 2 or 3 times a year they could introduce a new fuel, due to a 3 to 4 months need for research and extensive tests.
So here, with the introduction of their new PU, it said they are at least 6 months in advance from everyone in combustion area.

Now going back to the qualy and the race, my thoughts are the following:
1. With their WCC and WDC standings in mind they could afford an one off if their new PU fails, at least in Hamilton's case, I think;
2. Customers teams didn't afford to take those risks with an experimental PU, e.g. Williams couldn't afford to lose points and 3rd spot on WCC in a race were RB will probably pick no points. Same with FI and Lotus;
4. Where could be the ultimate test bench for a new PU other than Monza?
5. Rosberg couldn't afford to take that risk and bearing in mind he has a 6 race old PU and last but not least this is the tuffest race (on engine side) on the calendar, therefore they run it more conservative than they would have liked.
6. In some degree they took the same measure to Lewis's PU, both from the new engine perspective and looking what's happening with Rosberg's unit.
7. Something tells me Ferrari are likely to show off here, with a setup towards more to qualy and Merc do the opposite, knowing they'll have here the first row in their pocket. Prove to be a risky tactics afterwards ...
8. Maybe Ferrari did some real gains with those 3 tokens, especially with their MGU-H, were it was spoken to be down on Merc one mainly in qualy with having a non aggressive engine mapping deployment?
9. Or maybe camber and tyre pressures affected Merc cars the most?
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ME4ME
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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atanatizante wrote: This!
We have to admit that in many cases (if not all of them) a change for reliability reasons means a less powerful PU.
Forgot about Mercedes "reliability upgrade" in Canada? By no means that meant less power.

zeph
zeph
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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zeph wrote:
gray41 wrote:If Ferrari are running 1-2 with Kimi in front of Seb does the call come to switch places?
No, but something will go wrong with his pit stop. 8)
I guess that won't be necessary now...

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Steven
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Please join us at http://www.f1technical.net/live/ to follwo the race live!

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AnthonyG
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Joined: 03 Mar 2012, 13:16

Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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I'm going to be very very very bold and say Hamilton's gonna win this one.
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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RAI now in clear air 7/10 slower than vettel up front. Secondary car problems?

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mertol
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Joined: 19 Mar 2013, 10:02

Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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That's the best he can do.

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Mercedes took care of Rosberg, Raikkonen took himself out and FIA took care of new talent giving Sainz BS penalty.

Predictable borefest.

Edit: They used Raikkonen to block Rosberg #-o .

Moose
Moose
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Re: 2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Right... Because Sainz didn't take care of himself by overtaking 7 cars off the track at once.