Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Rhodium
25
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 20:52

Re: F1 2016 pre-season testing

Post

agree with that, in my opinion, it's better solution than canopy or other horribles things.

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: F1 2016 pre-season testing

Post

Vasconia wrote:
Jolle wrote:
As for driver(s) who lost colleagues and friends due to being hit by debris, I think they would like to drive with this.
I was not implying that should not use a protection system, I say that aesthetically is terrible and I dont know how it can affect driver´s vision. I clearly prefer Mercedes´s third option.
Same here, the halo is fugly and I'd rather a full jet fighter cockpit than that halo monstrosity!
"In downforce we trust"

User avatar
void
4
Joined: 03 Apr 2009, 15:27

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

FrukostScones wrote:Looks better than expected.

a thing like that would have probably saved Surtees Jr.

RIP
And I don't think like that would saved Justin Wilson.

User avatar
FrukostScones
162
Joined: 25 May 2010, 17:41
Location: European Union

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

void wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:Looks better than expected.

a thing like that would have probably saved Surtees Jr.

RIP
And I don't think like that would saved Justin Wilson.
and?

why? expand pls.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

User avatar
bdr529
59
Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 19:49
Location: Canada

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

LookBackTime wrote:looks like here is better to publish it :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcpATC5VIAAuYDD.jpg
That seems fitting, considering all the flip flopping going on with the new qualifying procedures.

sgth0mas
sgth0mas
3
Joined: 18 Mar 2015, 03:42

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

Post

Rhodium wrote:
Rhodium wrote:please, stop with this stupid idea who want F1 drivers are "dead alive" behind her cockpit...

when a driver is dead in F1 ? 94 !

who think Bianchi can escape to the death with this system is a dreamer...
rated negatively for insulting ? "stupid idea" is insulting ? the idea is stupid, not the person...
thanks man...
You have no data to back up these claims. In Bianchis case, This device would not have to stop the car. It would only have to deflect it laterally so his head didnt take a direct blow. Now i didnt design the device so i dont know what it can withstand...but it would have only had to move the car a foot laterally on a very slick surface to potentially save bianchi. Based on the shallow angle of the structure relative to an object on the direction of travel, i have to believe it would have improved his chances.

User avatar
void
4
Joined: 03 Apr 2009, 15:27

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

FrukostScones wrote:
void wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:Looks better than expected.

a thing like that would have probably saved Surtees Jr.

RIP
And I don't think like that would saved Justin Wilson.
and?

why? expand pls.
In my opinion the nosecone hit the top of his helmet, on halo empty space over the head. So a jumping tyre can hit the driver in the same way.

User avatar
poolboy67
10
Joined: 27 Jan 2015, 23:33

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

Post

sgth0mas wrote: You have no data to back up these claims. In Bianchis case, This device would not have to stop the car. It would only have to deflect it laterally so his head didnt take a direct blow. Now i didnt design the device so i dont know what it can withstand...but it would have only had to move the car a foot laterally on a very slick surface to potentially save bianchi. Based on the shallow angle of the structure relative to an object on the direction of travel, i have to believe it would have improved his chances.
bianchi crashed at nearly 200kph to a hard steel corner of a several tonne machine. the impact was so violent, the whole machine was lifted off the ground. there is nothing that you could put in front of the driver's head that could take or deflect that kind of impact, without obscuring the driver's ability to see. bianchi's car was practically destroyed. even the roll hoop had been sheared clean off. whilst the tracktor didn't even have a dent.

the helmet on the other hand worked incredibly well, since it had not shattered or anything. i.e jules' head had not become magled mess. Image

that halo rubbish is simply not sufficent enough to protect the drivers head. now it only adds more obstructions for the drivers view. it is redundant.

i'm glad to see kimi finaly had a trouble-free day. racepace looked promising, but nothing too special.
the car looks like a development (actualy the whole grid does) model. everyone is gearing up for next year it seems.
i have dyslexia and english is not my native language. please be gentle.

User avatar
mycadcae
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2010, 16:49
Location: Selangor Malaysia

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

Image

The 'halo' - I know it's not an open cockpit, but remember it could always be worse
source Matt Somerfield

Image
This is quite a cool on-board shot of the new ‘halo’ regardless of what you think of it!
source Matt Somerfield
Regard,
Nik Wan, Mechanical Designer, CATIA V5/ Solidworks/Autodesk Inventor/ AutoCAD

User avatar
mycadcae
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2010, 16:49
Location: Selangor Malaysia

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

Image

source Craig Scarborough
Regard,
Nik Wan, Mechanical Designer, CATIA V5/ Solidworks/Autodesk Inventor/ AutoCAD

User avatar
mycadcae
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2010, 16:49
Location: Selangor Malaysia

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

Image

Here's what the 2017 Halo solution is really going to look like 52mm CDS steel tube mounted over the cockpit
source Craig Scarborough

Here’s the first real-world look at F1’s partially closed cockpit concept
* The FIA wants them in 2017, but teams still need to pick a design

Image

Last week, the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) confirmed that it's planning to introduce semi-closed cockpits in Formula One starting in 2017. But today, in a new issue of Auto (the federation's trade publication), the FIA finally showed off a real-world version of what the new F1 cockpit might look like.

Image

One of the featured articles in the magazine — which you can view (and download) on the FIA's website — details the secretive tests that the FIA went through this past fall, and it shows that three radically different designs were tested. The first is the "halo" concept, which the FIA says is currently the "preferred option" for 2017. The project was originally started by Mercedes-Benz Motorsports until the FIA took it over last year and, until now, we had only seen as digital renders.

Image

The real-world version of the halo concept looks very different, ditching the thin, blade-like design for something more akin to the roll cage tested by the FIA in 2012. The strength of the halo, just like the other two potential cockpit solutions shown in Auto, was tested with an air cannon that shot a tire at 225 kmh (140 mph), simulating high-speed impacts with large debris. Andy Mellor, the lead researcher for the project, told Auto that this solution performed "extremely well" during the tests no matter which angle or height the tire was fired from. (It does appear that smaller bits of debris could make their way into the cockpit, though.) This version of the halo enclosure was made with steel, but Mellor says the FIA would have to use (and test) lighter materials if it does, in fact, pick this solution.

The other two designs were a bit more radical. One involved three long steel bars that curve over the driver's head, protecting them from basically any debris that could fall from above the cockpit (which is what killed IndyCar's Justin Wilson last year). The bars, which would eventually have to be made from more lightweight composite materials, flex when an object makes impact. One of the main concerns with cockpit protection (full canopies, especially) is that deflected debris might be flung toward grandstands, putting fans at risk. The advantage with this "centre-line roll hoop" design is that the flexing helps deflect more of the incoming object's energy before shooting it back up into the air. There are two obvious drawbacks, though: a solution like this might make it harder to quickly retrieve an injured driver after an accident, and it is also much more likely to interfere with the driver's vision.

The final solution the FIA tested is called "additional frontal protection." These are little more than a few curved fins that poke up from the front of the cockpit. They could deflect objects that are coming straight at a driver, but would offer no protection against debris coming from any other angle. It adds the least amount of obstruction to the driver's vision and doesn't impact the ability to remove a driver whatsoever, but it's likely to only ever make its way onto a car as part of a design rather than a wholesale solution for protection drivers from head injuries.

According to Auto, F1 is apparently ready to let teams try mock-ups of the halo cockpit design during practice sessions in order to test things like driver visibility. Alternate proposals are still rolling in though — Red Bull Racing reportedly submitted its own canopy-style design just a few weeks ago. If the FIA can get teams to agree on a particular solution, the series will move forward with the plan to introduce semi-closed cockpits in 2017

Source theverge
Regard,
Nik Wan, Mechanical Designer, CATIA V5/ Solidworks/Autodesk Inventor/ AutoCAD

OblongCheese
OblongCheese
0
Joined: 26 Jul 2012, 02:39

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

Post

poolboy67 wrote:bianchi crashed at nearly 200kph to a hard steel corner of a several tonne machine. the impact was so violent, the whole machine was lifted off the ground. there is nothing that you could put in front of the driver's head that could take or deflect that kind of impact, without obscuring the driver's ability to see. bianchi's car was practically destroyed. even the roll hoop had been sheared clean off. whilst the tracktor didn't even have a dent.

the helmet on the other hand worked incredibly well, since it had not shattered or anything. i.e jules' head had not become magled mess. https://s.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Gp3je ... 59a.cf.png

that halo rubbish is simply not sufficent enough to protect the drivers head. now it only adds more obstructions for the drivers view. it is redundant.

i'm glad to see kimi finaly had a trouble-free day. racepace looked promising, but nothing too special.
the car looks like a development (actualy the whole grid does) model. everyone is gearing up for next year it seems.

The device Ferrari tested was for testing driver visibility only and is obviously not structurally comparable to how the device would really be used. There is no way the real device would be attached to the top of the chassis with bolts like the test device was attached to Kimi's car.

The reason Bianchi died was due to the sudden nature in which his head stopped. His brain was smashed on the inside of his skull due to momentum. Bianchi's helmet was the only non-human material between Bianchis head and the underside of the tractor, and the impact structure of a helmet is not sufficient to absorb the amount of force involved in his accident (obviously).

If Bianchis car was fitted with a halo device that caused the car to hit the underside of the tractor and then veer off to the left allowing the car to continue impacting the tyre barriers and the entire car to absorb the crash energy, perhaps Bianchi would still be alive today. Of course he would probably still have been very injured and maybe not even racing anymore, but he would be alive.

Moose
Moose
52
Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 19:41

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

Post

poolboy67 wrote:the helmet on the other hand worked incredibly well, since it had not shattered or anything. i.e jules' head had not become magled mess.
A minor correction. The helmet did not do anything. Jules' head did not hit anything at any point. The brain trauma was caused purely by the rapid deceleration.

User avatar
RicME85
52
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 13:11
Location: Derby

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

Imagine how bad the cars would look with the 2014 noses and this halo :D

That 3 bar approach looks bad, just flinging the objects up in the air for someone else to collect

User avatar
siskue2005
70
Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

Post

RicME85 wrote:Imagine how bad the cars would look with the 2014 noses and this halo :D

That 3 bar approach looks bad, just flinging the objects up in the air for someone else to collect
No. If u see the gif above , you would notice that it is actually the halo which flings the tyre highest