2016 European Grand Prix - Baku City Circuit, Fri 17 – Sun 19 Jun

[Sonador]

On the RedBull problems with the high tire deg, looks a bit like what Mercedes had in 2013. Speed over one lap is quite good, just eating away the tires for the last few GP's

I think RB is one of the teams that is suffering because of the tire pressure clampdown.
The other one i think is Williams

See article: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclar ... ve-735663/

[Manoah2u]

As for this race, for me only 2 things stood out

1) Perez another magnificient performance, bloke deserves to be in a GP-winning car. Ferrari, Merc. please get him a 2017 Ferrari seat alongside Seb.
2) this GP is the most boring, underwhelming GP i've seen in ages. I don't know what it was, as at first it seemed all the elements were there for a spectacular venue but have i ever been let down. And that long straight doesnt do anything special either. Frankly, the long straight is a bit boring and to be honest a bit tricky and potentially dangerous. I would rather have seen these speeds with classic tracks with grass alongside it and a long runoff area (with a grass part in between). This just is rediculous for a streetcircuit. I hoped much from this GP but it underwhelmed and it was dull and boring to bits. i hope this was a one-time only event.

and finally,
Hamilton needs to up his game. Rosberg grows the lead on him once again, and though the sun might have played some part on Lewis' error in qually, the fact is 21 other drivers that experienced the same sun in their eyes had no problems. That touche cost him his qually, and instead of having a decent go at the start, he was more or less 'neutral'. Sure, setting problems did not help him but still. I really did enjoy seeing Alonso rocket himself around the outside of Lewis, too bad the gap ended and he had to brake, that was a brilliant move of Fernando.

I can only come to this conclusion now:

Alonso NEEDS a WDC capable car FAST. this is just torture.
Lewis NEEDS to up his game. I think his trackside manners are hurting him (party all the time).
Ferrari NEEDS to up their game. They did good, but it should have been amazing. Where is the 'amazing' in Ferrari?
This track is poor and boring af. quickly pull it out of its misery and never drive here again. The shame of it all is that a monumental city has now gotten a layer of asphalt on a once great looking brick road around the tower. are they able to remove that or is it ruined forever?

With all the examples of the past years, and having Mexico as the game-changing new super-venue, one would have expected more from Baku.

[Jolle]

This track is poor and boring af. quickly pull it out of its misery and never drive here again. The shame of it all is that a monumental city has now gotten a layer of asphalt on a once great looking brick road around the tower. are they able to remove that or is it ruined forever?

With all the examples of the past years, and having Mexico as the game-changing new super-venue, one would have expected more from Baku.

We've seen this a few times in the recent years. The first time they get to a track, the first race (or the first race even with the new cars in 2014) are indeed boring af. I think they had very specific instructions at the drivers breefing plus a conservative tire choice. Next year, same as Russia, will be better I think.

[notsofast]

This track had carnage written all over it. The best strategy was to be careful and stay out of trouble. Just wait for others to drop out, and if needed, use the DRS zone to move yourself up. Well, to our collective detriment, every single driver adopted that strategy. Hence, no safety car, and a race that wasn't as exciting as it could have been.

But it wasn't completely dull. This being a technical forum, it must have been interesting to most of us that Red Bull switched to medium tires for example. Or that Hamilton had trouble with his game controller. Or that some came in very early, but still only did a 1-stopper. Or to be able to see first hand what happens when you have two DRS zones but only one detection point. Or just watching those cars go downhill through those fast left-handers around turn 15.

Next year will be better. The drivers will be more daring. The DRS zones will be adjusted. They'll have more cranes to get disabled cars off the track faster. And so on.

[Cold Fussion]

That's why I'm asking... only caught glimpses of the track and race this weekend, and it appears to have too many 90 degree turns and some silly kerb placements.

You weren't asking how the track was, you very explicitly said it was a dull track.

Problem with internetz these days, is people cannot be bothered to read.

Here, let me help you...

As an aside, what was everyone's thoughts on the track itself? Seems apart from the straight, it's dull as dishwater!

But thanks for sharing your thoughts on the track Cold Fussion....oh wait.....you didn't.

There is no logical interpretation of your post where you don't give an opinion stating the track is dull.

[ChrisDanger]

You weren't asking how the track was, you very explicitly said it was a dull track.

Problem with internetz these days, is people cannot be bothered to read.

Here, let me help you...

As an aside, what was everyone's thoughts on the track itself? Seems apart from the straight, it's dull as dishwater!

But thanks for sharing your thoughts on the track Cold Fussion....oh wait.....you didn't.

There is no logical interpretation of your post where you don't give an opinion stating the track is dull.

I have a question, just as a neutral observer.

Can you tell the difference between these two sentences:

"The track is dull as dishwater!"

"I'd like some opinions of the track, as I only saw glimpes of it, and it mostly looks dull, apart from an exciting straight."

If you can tell the difference then I'm not sure what your problem is. If you can't then you should just drop the petty argument because you're not doing yourself any favours.

[SR71]

So how much time were Red Bull losing to Mercedes on THE straight now that we have all the data?

[krisfx]

Medical car doing a lap around the track. I have my doubts on 18-19 being flat.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... _Baku.html

Just watched this, terrible circuit.

I have an idea, a challenge for you, or kind of an experiment if you'd like to put it that way. Itis that, on the basis of your observation of this circuit being terrible, you don't watch any sessions at all this weekend. No FP, Q or Race.

It's just like if you walk into a shop and see some food that looks terrible you don't buy it. You buy some different food instead that doesn't look terrible. This weekend's F1 is the same kind of choice.

Of course if you accept I'll just have to take your word on it that you don't watch, but I'm curious

This is the first race in a long time I've turned off mid way through... A circuit can "look bad" from opinion whether an F1 car has turned a wheel around there or not. But thank you for your concerns.

[zac510]

This is the first race in a long time I've turned off mid way through... A circuit can "look bad" from opinion whether an F1 car has turned a wheel around there or not. But thank you for your concerns.

Yeah I'm not against your opinion or having an opinion of the circuit, but I'm just curious about the lack of action taken by people who make these criticisms of all aspects of Formula 1 on this and other forums.
That's why I challenged you to take action on your opinion!
Good on you for putting your money where your mouth is and turning the TV off.

[FoxHound]

There is no logical interpretation of your post where you don't give an opinion stating the track is dull.

Clearly you do not understand English.
It's embarrassing having to correct you.

[iotar__]

So how much time were Red Bull losing to Mercedes on THE straight now that we have all the data?

That's the problem with F1, at big teams they replaced professionals talking (you could at least deduct something when it was Allison at Lotus) with marketing and/or loudmouths. Alonso:

"We know that the deficit we have now: around six or seven tenths in one straight,"

Perez is flavour of the moment and everyone (deservedly) likes him, it used to be like that in '12 and year later Ron Dennis was replacing him with Magnussen because he was supposedly better at simulated F1. Tricky on the limit track helped, car was quick but driver made a difference. Context: Hulkenberg was quicker in Monaco and Canada Q and the crash in FP3. The last one is the least problematic, he may have lost second place but it's a risk reward. You can't switch aggressive, risky driving on and off, he was quickest when it mattered.

- Second mystery after Red Bull going down like a brick early (especially MV): Merc, RB and Ferrari had a similar start at the front. No clutch problems .
- Track is fine, not as extreme, no big dramas. Two more reasons: big straight and gaps/lack of competition. The latter, one stop races and driver choices at big teams are the problems not the track, if you turned your TV off, you missed Perez overtaking Raikkonen for fun and RBs recovering from a 2 stopper. I suspect it's all about liking the results (Hamilton), race was no different than most this season.

[Schuttelberg]

I am simply bewildered of the people slamming Hamilton for whinging. If i'd be in his position and seemingly not able to get the most out of the car because the car went into some mode he couldnt anticpate or understand. It's more annoying because this ultimately just robbed us of a battle that could have made the race that bit more interesting.

Well, unfortunately only some people understand his 'team radio' rant. I don't know of any driver who doesn't 'mourn' on the radio. On the one hand, we complain that today's drivers are PR robots and on the other we expect them to be exactly that on the radio when the adrenaline is pumping, a championship is to be won and they're actually expressing their true feelings. I think all 'team radio' conversations should be taken with a pinch of salt by us spectators. Once the race is over, things have cooled down and everyone has a perspective, then may be criticize drivers opinions, but people are so 'ready to pounce' when their favorite driver's competitor makes a comment on the radio that it's laughable.

Secondly, I think the radio rules are an absolute joke. I'm with you that it robbed us of a 'coming through the field drive' from Lewis and a spectacle of sorts. I would have been very interested to see how Perez and Vettel did against Hamilton.

On the other hand, I think Lewis benefited massively from a free tyre change 'for safety reasons' when he flat spotted his tyre in qualifying. It's strange that both ridiculous rules happened to help and hamper Lewis in the same grand prix. Honestly, while I like Lewis, the weekend he had, I don't think he deserved any better and while I find Rosberg massively overrated, boring and bland, he did a marvelous job this weekend on all fronts. What I find particularly annoying is how fans and the media are making out his 'lifestyle' as the reason for his mistakes. I mean 'Seriously?' That's what I find utterly in poor taste!

[Phil]

I agree about the tire, though I do feel somewhat that had that been the case with any other driver out of the midfield, no one would have cared nor would it have been an issue at all. There are subtleties within the sport that go beyond the general understanding of most fans and observers - like on which parts going off with all 4 wheels is tolerated or sanctioned, or these complex tire rules that are also very much a safety element - but when it hits a driver who is fighting and competing for the WDC like Hamilton is, it is brought up in an effort to prove something. Maybe it's because it's Hamilton, or because some people who are supporting Rosberg feel that they need to jump at everything that narrows the gap somewhat.

The tires were quite damaged in Q2. Now of course one can say that it was his own fault, but it's just a reality of these tires. Ever since the FIA decided to ban refueling, they've been looking for ways to bring back some of the excitement and have achieved this through very sensitive tires. The logic is to have tires so sensitive that you force drivers to drive in a way that doesn't damage them, yet they also have to cope with immense forces due to the cars being fully loaded with fuel for the entire GP during the race. But of course, in qualifying, you also want them to be quick. Then to compound the issue, you have a track like Baku - a street circuit, dirty but at the same time with some of the highest possible speeds. With all the tyre blowouts that Pirelli and F1 has suffered within the last 5 years, I think it's safe to say that they are cautious about what their tires might cause. And on a track like Baku - narrow walls and very high speeds, you don't want a tire blowout at all.

While I do get the argument that changing the tires should have imposed some kind of penalty. I do think there are other parts that have been declared as ok to replace without a penalty if they fail to meet certain security standards. Maybe this is wrong for tires given they are a crucial part of the drivers required skill to take care and nurse and are as much part of the performance element in todays Formula... but the fact that he was able to change them without any such penalty also suggests to me that these tires are perhaps very close (or too close) to the limit of being deemed to be safe for the purpose of racing on such a track.

Also to be fair; he didn't get a fresh set of tires, but a set that was deemed to have similar mileage (without the damage). So it's hard to say he gained an advantage because of it, nor would it suggest that others might do something like that on purpose (in the future) to gain the same advantage. So IMO - it wasn't such a big deal.

As a Hamilton fan, I'm most disappointed with what he himself delivered this weekend. Yes, he seemed to have his fair share of bad luck, starting in qualifying where he just ended up being in the wrong place at the wrong time (the yellow flag for instance) and just always under pressure that perhaps ruined his rhythm. Given though that he was 'the man to beat' in all practice session and he was not out of contention in Q3, it is a bit annoying that he failed to get it 'done' when he needed to.

To be very fair though; I think his lockup in Q3 was as much a result of ruined tires. He had no fresh set available to my knowledge (or was that first run a fresh set?), because he used them on his runs in Q2 - having to do multiple laps due to the yellow flags. If one of the tires had already been flatspotted, it would be a possible reason why it would have been more difficult to get a clean run done. And with the walls and potential of putting it into a wall, the margin for error was always extremely small, hence why so many went down the escape road. Still doesn't excuse him putting it in the wall though, especially given it would have been an easy P2 and set himself up for a chance to win the race - easily.

[Vasconia]

and while I find Rosberg massively overrated, boring and bland, he did a marvelous job this weekend on all fronts. What I find particularly annoying is how fans and the media are making out his 'lifestyle' as the reason for his mistakes. I mean 'Seriously?' That's what I find utterly in poor taste!

Taking into account all the negative comments about Nico on this forum and that people have never rated properly tha he was faster than Michael in 2010 and 2011, plus he is fighting against Hamiton, one of the talented guys out there, I would say that he his masively underrated. Where do you see the excessive praise to Nico?

Boring and bland? well, yes, he is not the most exciting driver but he is fast and he super precise in his approach to work with the car and the track. I do like more aggresive drivers but F1 also needs drivers like Nico. The battle between passion and a cool approach is interesting too.

Lifetyle or problems related to drivers private life can affet them, it has happened before. I do hate gossip people but its true that the influence can be negative in some cases.

[Schuttelberg]

and while I find Rosberg massively overrated, boring and bland, he did a marvelous job this weekend on all fronts. What I find particularly annoying is how fans and the media are making out his 'lifestyle' as the reason for his mistakes. I mean 'Seriously?' That's what I find utterly in poor taste!

Taking into account all the negative comments about Nico on this forum and that people have never rated properly tha he was faster than Michael in 2010 and 2011, plus he is fighting against Hamiton, one of the talented guys out there, I would say that he his masively underrated. Where do you see the excessive praise to Nico?

Boring and bland? well, yes, he is not the most exciting driver but he is fast and he super precise in his approach to work with the car and the track. I do like more aggresive drivers but F1 also needs drivers like Nico. The battle between passion and a cool approach is interesting too.

Lifetyle or problems related to drivers private life can affet them, it has happened before. I do hate gossip people but its true that the influence can be negative in some cases.

Well, do you really think Michael was at his best in those years? Let's get one thing straight, I don't think Nico Rosberg is a slouch. The guy can drive. Can he drive when the wind is against him and take it to the very best? No, I don't think so. I think his attitude this year has been very refreshing, bar Monaco, but in the past two years his attitude seemed to suggest that of someone trying to sneak a WDC out of somewhere. This year, he's gunning for wins which is more likely to win you a WDC. I think on pure speed, he's not far off Hamilton, but in terms of craft, he's not even in the same bracket. Just put him wheel to wheel with the best and he seems to straight away hit the 'panic' button. Mind you, in a car that's dominant. I don't have a problem with Nico, I think he's more than capable to win races and drive in a top seat, but he's not championship material and I'll be adamant about that till I see what I like to call 'a SPARK.'

I know I come across as very blunt and may be even a bit 'against' his talent, but I'm being transparent about my opinion and I will have no problem eating humble pie if he can actually 'beat' Hamilton.

@ Phil - Just like the tyres became 'an issue' because Hamilton was involved, so did the radio clampdown. I also think he was on a 'fresh set' in his Q3 run. Also, Hamilton sometimes refuses to be smart. After his Q1 and Q2 issues, he could have put a reasonable banker in which here would have 'easily' put him in P2 and then gone for it on his second run, thereby, limiting the damage and at the same time giving himself an equal opportunity for pole. There's no doubt Lewis was out of rythm in qualifying and it happens to the best. He suddenly hasn't lost focus or become casual, he just likes to make things difficult for himself sometimes. But, like I said, all things being equal, I don't think Lewis was hard done by this weekend.