2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

[basti313]

Their ability to use the tyres longer and harder than anyone else is the key to their dominance. The team have an understanding on tyres which used to be an Achilles heal previously. They can run longer, switch tyres on faster, and get more out of them when needed than the competition. It's an area they don't get much credit for, but one they really should.

It's quite obvious they've got tires worked out the best.

Thanks to the private Pirelli test. Part of Brawns master plan.

This was surely a big chunk of the cake. But we also need to take into account, that they were using the final third of the 2012 season only for tire testing. They were openly saying, that they were trying crazy setups to learn more about the car...and I think it was only the tires. And this was done by a more or less "advanced" test driver.
We already saw glimpses of the tire advantage in 2013. They could switch it on for one lap, but still not make it last long enough. When they build the 2014 car round their knowledge about the tires, the advantage was immense.

And I think they will keep that advantage: Pirelli will not invent a new tire. They will still use the same materials and the same concept like this year and just make the tire wider. "Grip" and "Durability" are a lottery with Pirelli, I would not expect major changes.

[turbof1]

That tyre test probably did very little. They collected a bit of data for 2014 yes, but the same data concerning tyres were shared to the other teams. Eventually nobody had any major issues in 2014 with the tyres.

The biggest they gained from were their struggles: they had massive issues with the tyres through 2010, '11, '12 and partly '13. It really forced them to look for answers and come up with solutions which nobody else really needed to at that point. It also forced them to hire experts in tyre management. Plus the tyres aren't as degrading as they were in the past, with Pirelli going down a very conservative road in '14. They have gone a bit more agressive in the last 2 years, which is where Mercedes is now shining through. I think the '13 tyre test only plays a very, very small role in their current tyre advantage.

[Edax]

That tyre test probably did very little. They collected a bit of data for 2014 yes, but the same data concerning tyres were shared to the other teams. Eventually nobody had any major issues in 2014 with the tyres.

The biggest they gained from were their struggles: they had massive issues with the tyres through 2010, '11, '12 and partly '13. It really forced them to look for answers and come up with solutions which nobody else really needed to at that point. It also forced them to hire experts in tyre management. Plus the tyres aren't as degrading as they were in the past, with Pirelli going down a very conservative road in '14. They have gone a bit more agressive in the last 2 years, which is where Mercedes is now shining through. I think the '13 tyre test only plays a very, very small role in their current tyre advantage.

I think one of the areas which is overlooked is the suspension. Mercy spent a massive effort on getting FRIC working and getting it dialed in to each track. Though FRIC has been abandoned, they still seem to have a big advantage over the rest when it comes to suspension. That will likely also translate into tyre performance.

[SR71]

It's quite obvious they've got tires worked out the best.

Thanks to the private Pirelli test. Part of Brawns master plan.

This was surely a big chunk of the cake. But we also need to take into account, that they were using the final third of the 2012 season only for tire testing. They were openly saying, that they were trying crazy setups to learn more about the car...and I think it was only the tires. And this was done by a more or less "advanced" test driver.
We already saw glimpses of the tire advantage in 2013. They could switch it on for one lap, but still not make it last long enough. When they build the 2014 car round their knowledge about the tires, the advantage was immense.

And I think they will keep that advantage: Pirelli will not invent a new tire. They will still use the same materials and the same concept like this year and just make the tire wider. "Grip" and "Durability" are a lottery with Pirelli, I would not expect major changes.

except no, they are inventing new tires....

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/07/15/f ... 7-pirelli/

[FoxHound]

Their ability to use the tyres longer and harder than anyone else is the key to their dominance. The team have an understanding on tyres which used to be an Achilles heal previously. They can run longer, switch tyres on faster, and get more out of them when needed than the competition. It's an area they don't get much credit for, but one they really should.

It's quite obvious they've got tires worked out the best.

Unsure if serious...

I mean its like you haven't been pointing at the engine, the whole engine and nothing but the engine for the last 3 years

[ClarkBT11]

That tyre test probably did very little. They collected a bit of data for 2014 yes, but the same data concerning tyres were shared to the other teams. Eventually nobody had any major issues in 2014 with the tyres.

The biggest they gained from were their struggles: they had massive issues with the tyres through 2010, '11, '12 and partly '13. It really forced them to look for answers and come up with solutions which nobody else really needed to at that point. It also forced them to hire experts in tyre management. Plus the tyres aren't as degrading as they were in the past, with Pirelli going down a very conservative road in '14. They have gone a bit more agressive in the last 2 years, which is where Mercedes is now shining through. I think the '13 tyre test only plays a very, very small role in their current tyre advantage.

1000km test with the chance to use different suspension setups with a current car. It must of gave them direction to work with for their engineers.

Pirelli says that they did not tell Mercedes what tyres they were testing, so they had no reference points. However some rival teams told this website that they know that Mercedes made changes in their approach to the tyres this weekend in Monaco, in areas like the suspension, for example, which showed that they had learned from the 1,000kms test.

James Allen

Did they learn to change the rotation of the tyres or was that idea thought before the test.

[dans79]

And I think they will keep that advantage: Pirelli will not invent a new tire. They will still use the same materials and the same concept like this year and just make the tire wider. "Grip" and "Durability" are a lottery with Pirelli, I would not expect major changes.

except no, they are inventing new tires....

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/07/15/f ... 7-pirelli/

You need to re-read what basti said, and think about it more!

[Juzh]

Their ability to use the tyres longer and harder than anyone else is the key to their dominance. The team have an understanding on tyres which used to be an Achilles heal previously. They can run longer, switch tyres on faster, and get more out of them when needed than the competition. It's an area they don't get much credit for, but one they really should.

It's quite obvious they've got tires worked out the best.

Unsure if serious...

I mean its like you haven't been pointing at the engine, the whole engine and nothing but the engine for the last 3 years

That's another thing they've (still) got worked out the best. Obviously.

[FoxHound]

That's another thing they've (still) got worked out the best. Obviously.

But this season, and especially since Canada, we cannot say the engine is the reason for Mercedes success.
Their chassis and aero lead the field, in particular how they correlate with tyre usage.

[SR71]

And I think they will keep that advantage: Pirelli will not invent a new tire. They will still use the same materials and the same concept like this year and just make the tire wider. "Grip" and "Durability" are a lottery with Pirelli, I would not expect major changes.

except no, they are inventing new tires....

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/07/15/f ... 7-pirelli/

You need to re-read what basti said, and think about it more!

are you in agreement with Basti? Are you really only saying the only thing that will change on the tires is dimension? Confirm or deny.

[PlatinumZealot]

The compounds will be more or less the same according to some sources. Then again no one really knows and Pirelli themselves claimed that they are making tyres than can be pushed for many laps without any gradual drop off, but the cliff will still be there... So interesting times ahead.

[SR71]

The compounds will be more or less the same according to some sources. Then again no one really knows and Pirelli themselves claimed that they are making tyres than can be pushed for many laps without any gradual drop off, but the cliff will still be there... So interesting times ahead.

Safe to say that Pirelli themselves have a good idea of what Pirelli is up to... The changes they suggest will be happening aren't likely to be a result of construction changes only.

These tires will be new in dimension, compound, and construction. You know, the literal definition of 'new concept' in the constrained world of F1 tires...

[dans79]

are you in agreement with Basti? Are you really only saying the only thing that will change on the tires is dimension?

Dimensions will change, and they will get harder. But just as before the change in hardness will be just re-branding existing compounds. by that I mean next years ulta softs will be this years softs. They won't be making any changes to the core or belts, and that is where performance can be found as well as issues.

Safe to say that Pirelli themselves have a good idea of what Pirelli is up to... The changes they suggest will be happening aren't likely to be a result of construction changes only.

The last 6 years have shown Pirelli barely knows what they are doing.

2011 - tweaking the compounds mid season because the couldn't get the degradation right. For example the 2011 Turkish grand prix was a 4 stop race.
2012 - The early season lottery, because no one could figure out how to get the tires to work consistently.
2013 - More mid season tweaks, because the tires kept popping like cheap party balloons.
2014 - Overly conservative. In Russia Nico did every lap except the first on a single set.
2015 - We don't know whats wrong so we will raise tire pressures almost to street car levels.
2016 - Ultra softs that really aren't. In Monaco Lewis did 47 laps on a set.

[bhall II]

But this season, and especially since Canada, we cannot say the engine is the reason for Mercedes success.
Their chassis and aero lead the field, in particular how they correlate with tyre usage.

Because the destabilizing effects of wheelspin are closely tied to throttle response, engine driveability has a significant impact on tire wear, and its effect is somewhat amplified by the fact that the regulations all but standardize weight distribution.

This isn't to say anything about the relative quality of any one component versus another, just that claims that Mercedes relies upon a superior chassis are no more substantiated than claims that Mercedes relies upon a superior PU. (I still can't figure out why it matters.)

[FoxHound]

But this season, and especially since Canada, we cannot say the engine is the reason for Mercedes success.
Their chassis and aero lead the field, in particular how they correlate with tyre usage.

Because the destabilizing effects of wheelspin are closely tied to throttle response, engine driveability has a significant impact on tire wear, and its effect is somewhat amplified by the fact that the regulations all but standardize weight distribution.

This isn't to say anything about the relative quality of any one component versus another, just that claims that Mercedes relies upon a superior chassis are no more substantiated than claims that Mercedes relies upon a superior PU. (I still can't figure out why it matters.)

If all they were doing was accelerating and braking in straight lines, it would be true.

And if we look at Mercedes starts this season, we see wheelspin(which as you say is tied to throttle response and driveability) almost universally from either driver at pretty much every start this season. One or both have lost position at each race bar 3*

*selective memory(no time to check)