Mclaren & Williams updates

Guest · Post 13 Jul 2004, 09:15

williams copy others designs in the hope for improvements...but they seem to have a separate frontend designgroup of some sorts....as mentioned before I think one of the maindisadvantages of the tusks is the instability in terms of horizontal from side to side .This vibration is obvious in onboard shots where you can clearly see the wing assy moving /oscillating from side to side.wonder how that feels to the driver....I bet it is something like a starting rocket......JPM won´t bother,but the new nose will be soon anold story...as soon as the frontend design group gets their wakeupcall....
Interesting to spot the stiff setups they still run ,with porpoising and bouncing as bad as it could possibly get,no wonder the car is twitchy and unpredictable,but I fear it would be even worse if they let the car work a bit more thanks to a very pointy aero...ohoh...
marcush.

Guest · Post 13 Jul 2004, 12:03

just read an interview with ross Brawn were he states the importance of the people and stability.he also mentions Newaygate as a possible reason for the dip in performance at Mclaren.Told you so....Marcush.

-shr3d- · Post 13 Jul 2004, 13:54

hey all......no doubt that had a big impact on Mclaren which I imagine would have destabilised the whole technical group with both him deciding to leave and then Ron working so hard to keep him, may have put some noses out of joint in the lower echelons perhaps....
fair return to form so far with the 19B, lets see how it works at Hungary...

bernard · Post 13 Jul 2004, 18:19

fair return to form so far with the 19B, lets see how it works at Hungary...

Personally I'm waiting for the next weeks Hockenheim GP. Mclaren has promised a new engine from mercedes for mercedes' home arena. Unfortunately Hockenheim hasnt been too easy for Mclaren, or especially their driver with the ability to take them some wins, Kimi. Hopefully this year will be better.
Then i believe Toyota will be bringing their revised car to the track, which will be very exciting, since it is the first major influence from their new head designer.
I'm not absolutely sure though was it Hockenheim where the new car rolls to the track, should have checked that before i started writing this... correct me if i'm wrong

West · Post 13 Jul 2004, 21:09

Everybody is reporting the B version of Toyota to debut in Germany, while the team website doesn't say anything about it.

bernard · Post 13 Jul 2004, 21:21

Shouldn't they be running the new car in tests right now in Silverstone or Jerez if they were to bring it to Hockenheim? Mp4-19b was tested long before it debuted in France so could this mean Toyota is experiencing some trouble making their B version?

Monstrobolaxa · Post 13 Jul 2004, 21:38

They must be very desperate.....since the Tf-104 is 1,5s slower then last years car....they probably think it's impossible to make a car that is even slower!!!

sharkie17 · Post 13 Jul 2004, 23:35

off topic a bit, but Toyota has the 2nd largest budget and cant get the car to go faster... Are they still going thru F1 growing pain?

bernard · Post 14 Jul 2004, 02:07

True. Their lack of success doesn't come down to money. Their problems are in the managing level I would say, as the hiring of Ralf Schumacher with big money shows. Big salary doesn't make a good driver. The good drivers get big salaries because they are good, not the other way around.
It's good they got rid of that old fat Swedish guy that was their team boss before. He didn't have any F1 background and Swedes aren't known as a great F1 country

They need a proper boss. Like Stewart. Only I saw him wearing jaguar colours in Bridgestone, so they might have to throw some more money around to get him.
I don't even know who toyota's teamboss is at the moment. Too lazy to look that up.

Guest · Post 14 Jul 2004, 04:20

Bosses at Toy are Tsutomo Tomita and Mike Gascoyne (as Tech Director). Gascoyne is really one of the more talented people in F1. I'm guessing we'll be seeing Toyota on the rise next year since the TF105 will be the first car that Gascoyne made from the ground up. If I'm not mistaken, the TF104 was designed by Gustav Brunner and Gascoyne has been working on both the 104B and 105 since he moved from Renault.

There are even rumors that Flavio will move to Toyota as well once his current contract with Renault expires at the end of 2005. That would really send shivers down the spines of people up and down the paddock, IMO.

-Kevin

Guest · Post 14 Jul 2004, 08:46

Mike gascoyne again....would you believe he is one of the F1 greats?
asfarasiknow he started up at Tyrrell and reached the position of deputy(!)
chief designer/technical director alng with the late Harvey Postlethwaite.He followed him to Sauber where he was responsible for Aero I think.(Sauber had long long trouble with aero...actually up to this year i guess)then he went back to tyrrell and moved over to Jordan when Tyrrell was closed by BAR.I think it was his Idea to have two separate design teams alternating in responsibility to design next years cars.Only the last years at jordan brought success and his last design responsibility was not really a success(him leaving before that really came to the light)same for Renault ..He came when the team was in upswing anyway and left just when trouble to get forwar began creeping in.
Toyota is different,with the new car slower than last years(!) and lots of development not bringing them forward...new car new chance? you bet.
anyone out there to know why they don´t use last years car if it was faster anyway.The cars look the same anyway so nobody could see...

Monstrobolaxa · Post 14 Jul 2004, 13:32

Mike Gascoyne's cv:

1989-1990 : aerodynamicist > McLaren (F1)
1991 : chief aerodynamicist > Tyrrell (F1)
1992 : chief aerodynamicist > projet Sauber (F1)
1993 : chief aerodynamicist > Sauber (F1)
1994-1997 : chief designer > Tyrrell
1998 : chief designer > Jordan (F1)
1999-2000 : technical director > Jordan (F1)
2001-2003 : technical director > Benetton/Renault (F1)
2004 : technical director > Toyota (F1)

According to what I've read the TF104 isn't a Gascoyne design when he arrived at Toyota the car was almost completly designed and he didn't have the oportunity to change too much.

bernard · Post 14 Jul 2004, 14:26

You bet it isn't a Gascoyne design... I mean have you seen the Toyota? Compare that to the Renaults from Gascoyne era... a giant leap backwards. Espacially the sidepods look ancient. He has made some changes to the rearwing and tops of the sidepods, but other than that his influence on the car is still waiting in the form of the b version. If i remember correctly then he is in charge of most of the cars design, including aeodynamics, because Toyota hasn't got enough people that would know what they're doing.

Monstrobolaxa · Post 14 Jul 2004, 14:37

bernard wrote:Shouldn't they be running the new car in tests right now in Silverstone or Jerez if they were to bring it to Hockenheim? Mp4-19b was tested long before it debuted in France so could this mean Toyota is experiencing some trouble making their B version?

They are testing it in Silverstone according to f1-live.com

Guest · Post 14 Jul 2004, 14:53

no they are tesing in jerez