2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Redragon]

I think both parts are to blame, Mclaren as Honda. Mclaren asked for a size zero Honda delivered but couldn't make it work because of the limitation of tokes. Now have been some compromises on the size and they copy Mercedes lay out that it was the most obvious choice when they started, but they still produced really compact unit, maybe because Mclaren didn't want to compromise much with their chasis and Honda is trying to deliver a unit that work into those limitations, so problems still persist. But for sure, Honda would have benefited by providing to a second team, they should have improved the unit faster but Mclaren stop them. So now it is time to assume responsability as team, swallow the pride and start to think a bit smarter. Fix and develop the unit during this year, develop the chasis stalled last two years and supply other teams to create some competition as well as faster development.

No they didn't. They didn't say "Make size zero happen anyhow. We dont care how difficult it is.". You need to read each and every translation by Marumasa on Autosport forums and somewhere in there, Hasegawa said McLaren never demanded size zero or anything.

they supported

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/mc ... tory.shtml

[Redragon]

I think both parts are to blame, Mclaren as Honda. Mclaren asked for a size zero Honda delivered but couldn't make it work because of the limitation of tokes. Now have been some compromises on the size and they copy Mercedes lay out that it was the most obvious choice when they started, but they still produced really compact unit, maybe because Mclaren didn't want to compromise much with their chasis and Honda is trying to deliver a unit that work into those limitations, so problems still persist. But for sure, Honda would have benefited by providing to a second team, they should have improved the unit faster but Mclaren stop them. So now it is time to assume responsability as team, swallow the pride and start to think a bit smarter. Fix and develop the unit during this year, develop the chasis stalled last two years and supply other teams to create some competition as well as faster development.

No they didn't. They didn't say "Make size zero happen anyhow. We dont care how difficult it is.". You need to read each and every translation by Marumasa on Autosport forums and somewhere in there, Hasegawa said McLaren never demanded size zero or anything.

they supported

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/mc ... tory.shtml

[makecry]

I think both parts are to blame, Mclaren as Honda. Mclaren asked for a size zero Honda delivered but couldn't make it work because of the limitation of tokes. Now have been some compromises on the size and they copy Mercedes lay out that it was the most obvious choice when they started, but they still produced really compact unit, maybe because Mclaren didn't want to compromise much with their chasis and Honda is trying to deliver a unit that work into those limitations, so problems still persist. But for sure, Honda would have benefited by providing to a second team, they should have improved the unit faster but Mclaren stop them. So now it is time to assume responsability as team, swallow the pride and start to think a bit smarter. Fix and develop the unit during this year, develop the chasis stalled last two years and supply other teams to create some competition as well as faster development.

No they didn't. They didn't say "Make size zero happen anyhow. We dont care how difficult it is.". You need to read each and every translation by Marumasa on Autosport forums and somewhere in there, Hasegawa said McLaren never demanded size zero or anything.

they supported

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/mc ... tory.shtml

There is a difference between supporting and asking for it. Honda made the final decision. No one from McLaren asked them to make it happen anyhow ,come what may. As I said Marumasa has posted a lot of translations over past couple of years . And in those translations, this McLaren asked for it has been debunked.

[Redragon]

No they didn't. They didn't say "Make size zero happen anyhow. We dont care how difficult it is.". You need to read each and every translation by Marumasa on Autosport forums and somewhere in there, Hasegawa said McLaren never demanded size zero or anything.

they supported

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/mc ... tory.shtml

There is a difference between supporting and asking for it. Honda made the final decision. No one from McLaren asked them to make it happen anyhow ,come what may. As I said Marumasa has posted a lot of translations over past couple of years . And in those translations, this McLaren asked for it has been debunked.

Another interview from Boullier in 2015, he swipes his opinions as he wish to save his ass and this interview is not in japanese to translate, http://en.f1i.com/magazine/10369-hondas ... esign.html My point with my post it is that both are to blame for the situation they are

[Redragon]

they supported

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/mc ... tory.shtml

There is a difference between supporting and asking for it. Honda made the final decision. No one from McLaren asked them to make it happen anyhow ,come what may. As I said Marumasa has posted a lot of translations over past couple of years . And in those translations, this McLaren asked for it has been debunked.

Another interview from Boullier in 2015, he swipes his opinions as he wish to save his ass and this interview is not in japanese to translate, http://en.f1i.com/magazine/10369-hondas ... esign.html My point with my post it is that both are to blame for the situation they are

Quoting Boullier “The chassis has been designed to wrap up so compactly at the rear that we had to include all elements into a tight package with nothing sticking out. In order to achieve this, Honda actually had to make several attempts and come up with three versions of the power unit because the initial two did not meet the chassis/aero technical specifications. It took them a lot of effort.”

[DiogoBrand]

Zak Brown has a lot to worry about from what we are seeing at the moment. He must find a way to arrest the decline before it becomes terminal, or Tyrrell. I'd let Alonso go at the end of this season and use the money to fund the 2018-19 cars. If that don't work out, Zak, Mansour, and other co-owners may have to sell the F1 team to BMW as they have started working together on road car engines, but BMW don't seem too keen to get back into F1 or beaten by Mercedes.

Mclaren need to build more cars to spend on the F1 team

If Honda move or made to move then there is going to be a huge hole in the budget.

Your really concerned about about the finances of a formula 1 team owned by several Saudi Billionaires with aspirations of owning the 21st century's answer to Ferrari and who no doubt enjoying showing off to their Saudi billionaire friends at Bahrain & Abu Dhabi?

Zac Browne implied at the launch they are happy with the current finances, not that I'm sure they wouldn't love to earn some more cash from a sponsor or 2, however when your that rich and still making vast sums of cash life becomes a game to enjoy and owing an F1 team a hobby

If anything, I'd say Ferrari is the 21st century's answer to McLaren. As far as I remember, McLaren had more driver titles up until this century, didn't they? Don't know about constructors' titles though.

There seems to be a consensus growing that Honda are indeed the weakest link, whereas last year and most of 2015 people were blaming McLaren or saying it was 50/50.

It most definitely is not McLaren making crap engines. The only problem with McLaren I have now is why the hell they chose Honda in the first place.

Imagine that engine in a Manor or Sauber, it would be one of the worst performance of F1 history.

There is some people that at some point put the blame on McLaren, even I did it last season, although now I believe I was wrong. But it was definitely not most people, and during 2015 I really don't think there was too many people blaming McLaren.
No one can know for sure if McLaren's chassis is any good, but how can it be good if they can't even test it? So yes... Honda does need to get their *stuff* together.

I think both parts are to blame, Mclaren as Honda. Mclaren asked for a size zero Honda delivered but couldn't make it work because of the limitation of tokens. Now have been some compromises on the size and they copy Mercedes lay out that it was the most obvious choice when they started, but they still produced really compact unit, maybe because Mclaren didn't want to compromise much with their chasis and Honda is trying to deliver a unit that work into those limitations, so problems still persist. But for sure, Honda would have benefited by providing to a second team, they should have improved the unit faster but Mclaren stop them. So now it is time to assume responsability as team, swallow the pride and start to think a bit smarter. Fix and develop the unit during this year, develop the chasis stalled last two years and supply other teams to create some competition as well as faster development.

Oh the old "Mclaren asked" vs "it was Honda's idea" discussion... Maybe this time we'll get a definitive answer [-o<

[Redragon]

Mclaren need to build more cars to spend on the F1 team

If Honda move or made to move then there is going to be a huge hole in the budget.

Your really concerned about about the finances of a formula 1 team owned by several Saudi Billionaires with aspirations of owning the 21st century's answer to Ferrari and who no doubt enjoying showing off to their Saudi billionaire friends at Bahrain & Abu Dhabi?

Zac Browne implied at the launch they are happy with the current finances, not that I'm sure they wouldn't love to earn some more cash from a sponsor or 2, however when your that rich and still making vast sums of cash life becomes a game to enjoy and owing an F1 team a hobby

If anything, I'd say Ferrari is the 21st century's answer to McLaren. As far as I remember, McLaren had more driver titles up until this century, didn't they? Don't know about constructors' titles though.

There seems to be a consensus growing that Honda are indeed the weakest link, whereas last year and most of 2015 people were blaming McLaren or saying it was 50/50.

It most definitely is not McLaren making crap engines. The only problem with McLaren I have now is why the hell they chose Honda in the first place.

Imagine that engine in a Manor or Sauber, it would be one of the worst performance of F1 history.

There is some people that at some point put the blame on McLaren, even I did it last season, although now I believe I was wrong. But it was definitely not most people, and during 2015 I really don't think there was too many people blaming McLaren.
No one can know for sure if McLaren's chassis is any good, but how can it be good if they can't even test it? So yes... Honda does need to get their *stuff* together.

I think both parts are to blame, Mclaren as Honda. Mclaren asked for a size zero Honda delivered but couldn't make it work because of the limitation of tokens. Now have been some compromises on the size and they copy Mercedes lay out that it was the most obvious choice when they started, but they still produced really compact unit, maybe because Mclaren didn't want to compromise much with their chasis and Honda is trying to deliver a unit that work into those limitations, so problems still persist. But for sure, Honda would have benefited by providing to a second team, they should have improved the unit faster but Mclaren stop them. So now it is time to assume responsability as team, swallow the pride and start to think a bit smarter. Fix and develop the unit during this year, develop the chasis stalled last two years and supply other teams to create some competition as well as faster development.

Oh the old "Mclaren asked" vs "it was Honda's idea" discussion... Maybe this time we'll get a definitive answer [-o<

This is an interview to Boullier in 2015, http://en.f1i.com/magazine/10369-hondas ... esign.html he is stating to my point of view Mclaren asked to Honda.

Quoting Boullier “The chassis has been designed to wrap up so compactly at the rear that we had to include all elements into a tight package with nothing sticking out. In order to achieve this, Honda actually had to make several attempts and come up with three versions of the power unit because the initial two did not meet the chassis/aero technical specifications. It took them a lot of effort.”

[max_speed]

My words -- May Mclaren-Honda RIP.
i just pray Alonso bows out and secures a better seat for next year. anyone who still has hope with MclreanHonda , best of luck to all of you. keep burning yourself from head to toe

[Thunder]

Mclaren asked for a size zero Honda delivered but couldn't make it work because of the limitation of tokens.

That old Shoe again.....

I think this is the 4th or 5th Time i posted the following link, but here goes:
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compani ... ear?page=2

Q: Some analysts say that the technological troubles you encountered stemmed from McLaren's "size zero" concept, which called for an extremely small power unit. Do you intend to make any size changes in 2016?

A: No. F1 cars cannot go fast without proper consideration given to air resistance and the way suspensions move. It's important to minimize the size of power units so that they don't interfere with the car's design. ... McLaren once told us that we don't have to be aggressive in downsizing our power unit. But we are determined to shrink the size by whatever means possible.

[Vasconia]

There seems to be a consensus growing that Honda are indeed the weakest link, whereas last year and most of 2015 people were blaming McLaren or saying it was 50/50.

It most definitely is not McLaren making crap engines. The only problem with McLaren I have now is why the hell they chose Honda in the first place.

Imagine that engine in a Manor or Sauber, it would be one of the worst performance of F1 history.

There are several reason to explain the current situation:

1. Honda came too early, 2016 would have been more appropiate. Well in fact they should have reached a deal much before just to be ready for 2014.

2. McLaren had a chassis and forced Honda to build a PU which had to meet those specificatios. You can´t build a winning project based on this idea.

3. Lack of coordinaton between both parts.

4. Token system.

[FW17]

1. Honda came too early, 2016 would have been more appropiate. Well in fact they should have reached a deal much before just to be ready for 2014.

The engine was so bad in 2015 that they couldn't have been any worse in 2014

With Ferrari and Renault units also looking bad in 2014, Honda would not have been in such a bad place.

They probably also would not have had the bad idea of improving on the Mercedes split turbo by putting it in the V

[wickedz50]

My words -- May Mclaren-Honda RIP.
i just pray Alonso bows out and secures a better seat for next year. anyone who still has hope with MclreanHonda , best of luck to all of you. keep burning yourself from head to toe

Alonso is currently out of luck and I see no change for another 2 years. First he will not get a seat with Merc in 2017 and secondly Honda will not become a bazooka in 2017. However if he has patience similar to his 5years with Ferrari then there is definitely a chance to win the drivers championship in 2019-20. Honda and McLaren will gradually become a winning combination but slowly.

[mclaren111]

i think Mclaren need to sue Honda for the damages its making on its Brand..... and i mean big time.. year 3 and engines that do not run even 1 lap? this is 2017 not 1950´s and even then.. they did a better job..

and an oil tank issue!?!?! really??? i cant even understand how such a basic element.. i mean no one has gone wrong with it since i can remember.. ever.... wtf...

its very bad... if it was a car crash.. this wold be a total loss.... just unacceptable

I read somewhere McLaren gets Free engines and +- $ 60 million per year (correct me if I am wrong). They simply will not survive without it. Agree with RD that as customer team you can not win WDC

This is regrettable but I think it is a solvable problem. Only question is how long it will take.

STAY POSITIVE =D>

[FW17]

+ half the drivers bill

[makecry]

There seems to be a consensus growing that Honda are indeed the weakest link, whereas last year and most of 2015 people were blaming McLaren or saying it was 50/50.

It most definitely is not McLaren making crap engines. The only problem with McLaren I have now is why the hell they chose Honda in the first place.

Imagine that engine in a Manor or Sauber, it would be one of the worst performance of F1 history.

There are several reason to explain the current situation:

1. Honda came too early, 2016 would have been more appropiate. Well in fact they should have reached a deal much before just to be ready for 2014.

2. McLaren had a chassis and forced Honda to build a PU which had to meet those specificatios. You can´t build a winning project based on this idea.

3. Lack of coordinaton between both parts.

4. Token system.

Time and again , it has been proven that that statement is bullshit. I mean seriously? Just read the post above you. FFS.