Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
PhillipM
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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Vanja #66 wrote: That's not my interpretation of his quote, that's what people from automotive industry and motorsport who have been around for 20+ years say it means. Don't underestimate Chapman, he was a lot more than a designer wanting only to make things as light as possible. But let's finish with this OT here...
The I would say you're hanging around the wrong people from automotive industries, because it's sure as hell not what any people I know in the motorsport industry take it as - that's not what Chapman intended to convey at all, which is pretty damned evident if you take it in context of what he was talking about, which was running suspension sprung so stiff that the kinematics barely mattered.
Something modern F1 cars have come away from, although aero still trumps geometery - which is part of what is going on with the front hubs, as they run little in the way of anti-dive and compression stiffness in pitch, in order to get the front wing low under braking and then hold it there with damping/inerters.
Running with low anti-dive leads to your wishbone/upright flex rotating the brake ducts down under heavy braking - something that wouldn't be as noticable otherwise as the upright rotation under compression would counter more of the flex.

zioture
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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Last edited by zioture on 16 Mar 2017, 18:16, edited 1 time in total.

wuzak
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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CBeck113
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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Thanks wuzak, this is what I meant before when I said that I haven't seen a Ferrari so easy to drive - there's little work to do for the driver, so I'm hoping that there's more speed hidden in the stability.
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

jamsbong
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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Thanks for the video comparing the 2 cars suspension.
Just thinking out loud but Mercedes looks to have put a lot of effort on suspension design. First, they try to keep the front suspension as high as possible. This allows more room for air flow underneath the nose section.
Second, they wanted to maintain a good suspension set up by keeping the wishbone flat. thus the unique upper wishbone connection to the wheels. This makes the car easier to tune and nicer/easier to drive. Also friendlier to tires.

The result is clear, the Ferrari is fast because it has very good aero. but can't seem to point at the apex at lower speed. This is evident with Kimi's onboard.
Mercedes onboard shows the drivers not trying hard and seemingly just cruise around. This indicates that the Mercedes could be on heavy fuel load and yet they are not far behind in terms of lap times.

Mercedes is gonna win this year. Ferrari may have a repeat of last year. I hope not but seems like that to me.

Ral
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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I don't claim any insight into any of this, but if we are talking about sandbagging and methods to do so, I think it should be noted that the trackside correspondent from Autosport reported that Raikkönen consistently took the same line through turn 10 regardless of fuel load. As in he was aiming to not hit the apex of that corner. It is therefore conceivable he did the same in other corners and besides that, I think for several years now drivers have taken an off-apex line through turn 5 anyway.

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FrukostScones
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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could there be a protest against the Ferrari side pods? (retaliation from RB if Ferrari protest their suspension)

or ar they indisputably within the regs?
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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F1Krof
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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FrukostScones wrote:could there be a protest against the Ferrari side pods? (retaliation from RB if Ferrari protest their suspension)

or ar they indisputably within the regs?
No, because the sidepods fully comply with the rules. Yes, there could be a protest but it would be overturned immediately.
Wroom wroom

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Mr.G
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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F1Krof wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:could there be a protest against the Ferrari side pods? (retaliation from RB if Ferrari protest their suspension)

or ar they indisputably within the regs?
No, because the sidepods fully comply with the rules. Yes, there could be a protest but it would be overturned immediately.
More likely there will be some copying...
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

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turbof1
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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Mr.G wrote:
F1Krof wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:could there be a protest against the Ferrari side pods? (retaliation from RB if Ferrari protest their suspension)

or ar they indisputably within the regs?
No, because the sidepods fully comply with the rules. Yes, there could be a protest but it would be overturned immediately.
More likely there will be some copying...
Looks very hard to do. The SF70H has a very complicated cooling infrastructure in there, and the sidepods have been moved backward by a lot. This kind of change would require a new cooling set up and a new chassis. Suspension will probably also have to be changed as it requires a very specific geometry.

And then I'm not even talking about the aerodynamic implications. This is not something anyone is going to copy until next year.
#AeroFrodo

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Mr.G
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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turbof1 wrote:
Mr.G wrote:
F1Krof wrote:
No, because the sidepods fully comply with the rules. Yes, there could be a protest but it would be overturned immediately.
More likely there will be some copying...
Looks very hard to do. The SF70H has a very complicated cooling infrastructure in there, and the sidepods have been moved backward by a lot. This kind of change would require a new cooling set up and a new chassis. Suspension will probably also have to be changed as it requires a very specific geometry.

And then I'm not even talking about the aerodynamic implications. This is not something anyone is going to copy until next year.
Yes I understand, but you can copy to the next season or for bigger changes mid season... But what I was thinking was the idea of overcomming the rule by the flow conditioners in front of real sidepod - you know Ferrari have sidepods in 90° and the rest in some angle defined by rules. That is what I think will be copied by teams and merged with they aero/packaging needs.
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

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turbof1
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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Mr.G wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
Mr.G wrote: More likely there will be some copying...
Looks very hard to do. The SF70H has a very complicated cooling infrastructure in there, and the sidepods have been moved backward by a lot. This kind of change would require a new cooling set up and a new chassis. Suspension will probably also have to be changed as it requires a very specific geometry.

And then I'm not even talking about the aerodynamic implications. This is not something anyone is going to copy until next year.
Yes I understand, but you can copy to the next season or for bigger changes mid season... But what I was thinking was the idea of overcomming the rule by the flow conditioners in front of real sidepod - you know Ferrari have sidepods in 90° and the rest in some angle defined by rules. That is what I think will be copied by teams and merged with they aero/packaging needs.
The flow conditioners in front of the real sidepod are legal only because Ferrari moved the real sidepod that further back, further then other teams. To change that would be changing the structural part of the sidepods (which are an integral part of the chassis), moving the side crash structures back, and then crash testing the whole deal again.
viewtopic.php?p=680589#p680589

Look at the image. The other 3 cars have their sidepod starting out around the steering wheel. Ferrari's true sidepod starts at the headrests. Again, sidepods entrances are a part of the tub.

I moved the discussion about the roll hoop to the cockpit safety topic:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7107
#AeroFrodo

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Blackout
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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Is it me or the actual sidepod openings of the Ferrari are similar to the 2010/2011 Ferrari sidepod design (and 2011-2013 Lotus and 2013 Mclaren) regarding their shape and their aim? (those teams also have pushed the sidepods a bit backward and put a secondary crash structure inside the smaller upper lip) http://i.imgur.com/I5vhFDV.jpg
So when you mentally disregard the upper flaps... :mrgreen:
https://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/48/85/ ... 70h-up.png
Image


Image

The lower wing-shaped lip remind me of the 2008 Mclaren a bit too https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/static/img ... he-car.jpg

bonjon1979
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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turbof1 wrote:
Mr.G wrote:
F1Krof wrote:
No, because the sidepods fully comply with the rules. Yes, there could be a protest but it would be overturned immediately.
More likely there will be some copying...
Looks very hard to do. The SF70H has a very complicated cooling infrastructure in there, and the sidepods have been moved backward by a lot. This kind of change would require a new cooling set up and a new chassis. Suspension will probably also have to be changed as it requires a very specific geometry.

And then I'm not even talking about the aerodynamic implications. This is not something anyone is going to copy until next year.
I completely agree. The entire philosophy of the car's aero and internal architecture is designed around those sidepods. No way the teams could copy it and in truth it would be a waste of resources. The amount of man hours it would take to redesign an entire car would probably be better spent trying to make up the ground in other areas. I think we're going to see the most changes around the barge boards, front wings and diffuser on these cars. It's just too big a job to start dramatically redesigning the sidepods.

Singabule
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

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Yeah, it is very difficult to be replicated. I Just wondering, even newey interested with that sidepod, maybe because he know that will cost a lot of drag but better in managing or splitting bottom and upper airflow, and cannot be done without powerful engine, also very difficult to be improved especially to reduce its drag. Only merc can afford this design, but no way in following Ferrari design.