2017 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai 07-09 April

[notsofast]

Can we discuss the inability of Verstappen to pass Grosjean in the closing laps please. Sure, it's possible that Verstappen went to Red Bull whining school. Sure, it's possible that his tires were shot. But let's assume that he was right, that he was indeed impeded by Grosjean's dirty air. In another topic on this forum we discussed that the new aero rules may cause different cars to create different wake structures, which in turn may impact different trailing cars differently. If it is indeed true that these wake structures can impede a car that is trailing 2 seconds or so, doesn't that mean that the FIA should take a look at the "blue flag" rules? I mean, why should it make a difference HOW a car is being impeded by a competitor who is effectively one lap behind? If the intent is for almost-lapped cars not to influence racing between the lead cars, then lead cars should not be impeded by the wake of an almost-lapped car. Thoughts?

[nevill3]

I thought that the rules require that a driver has at least 50% of his car within the starting grid box. That is what was implied by the sky commentators during the race so obviously Vettel knew this and pulled over to avoid the white lines that mark the boundary of his grid box because we all know that the painted lines have less grip than the tarmac, very clever of Sebastian.

[bonjon1979]

Nope. Not as clear cut as that. This is the rule.

'When the cars come back to the grid at the end of the formation lap (or laps, see Article 39.16), they will stop within their respective grid positions, keeping their engines running.'

There is no strict definition of 'within their respective grid positions'

I think that from now on we could see drivers try some funky things at the start. If one wheel is inside the grid spot, perhaps they are still within the grid position?

[TAG]

Can we discuss the inability of Verstappen to pass Grosjean in the closing laps please. Sure, it's possible that Verstappen went to Red Bull whining school. Sure, it's possible that his tires were shot. But let's assume that he was right, that he was indeed impeded by Grosjean's dirty air. In another topic on this forum we discussed that the new aero rules may cause different cars to create different wake structures, which in turn may impact different trailing cars differently.

Ricciardo was following Verstappen much closer and he wasn't on the radio complaining so something's off on your Red Bull being affected by dirty air hypothesis.

[Edax]

Can we discuss the inability of Verstappen to pass Grosjean in the closing laps please. Sure, it's possible that Verstappen went to Red Bull whining school. Sure, it's possible that his tires were shot. But let's assume that he was right, that he was indeed impeded by Grosjean's dirty air. In another topic on this forum we discussed that the new aero rules may cause different cars to create different wake structures, which in turn may impact different trailing cars differently. If it is indeed true that these wake structures can impede a car that is trailing 2 seconds or so, doesn't that mean that the FIA should take a look at the "blue flag" rules? I mean, why should it make a difference HOW a car is being impeded by a competitor who is effectively one lap behind? If the intent is for almost-lapped cars not to influence racing between the lead cars, then lead cars should not be impeded by the wake of an almost-lapped car. Thoughts?

I think the problem was more that the wake turbulence managed to kill what little life there was left in Ves left front. A few laps earlier he would have gotten in DRS range with ease.

Still I don't blame him (or others) for trying. Who knows you manage to get the attention from the other team and have him cleared. After all they are not driving around for fun. Rather a whining winner than a gentleman loser.

But to ask backmarkers to manage their wake turbulence then you might as well ask them to pull off the track when they are in a no points position. They should not impede front runners, but they should be allowed to have a race of their own.

[Edax]

Can we discuss the inability of Verstappen to pass Grosjean in the closing laps please. Sure, it's possible that Verstappen went to Red Bull whining school. Sure, it's possible that his tires were shot. But let's assume that he was right, that he was indeed impeded by Grosjean's dirty air. In another topic on this forum we discussed that the new aero rules may cause different cars to create different wake structures, which in turn may impact different trailing cars differently.

Ricciardo was following Verstappen much closer and he wasn't on the radio complaining so something's off on your Red Bull being affected by dirty air hypothesis.

Afterwards Ric told that as soon as he got close to verstappen his own front left tire died due to the dirty air as well.

[TAG]

Can we discuss the inability of Verstappen to pass Grosjean in the closing laps please. Sure, it's possible that Verstappen went to Red Bull whining school. Sure, it's possible that his tires were shot. But let's assume that he was right, that he was indeed impeded by Grosjean's dirty air. In another topic on this forum we discussed that the new aero rules may cause different cars to create different wake structures, which in turn may impact different trailing cars differently.

Ricciardo was following Verstappen much closer and he wasn't on the radio complaining so something's off on your Red Bull being affected by dirty air hypothesis.

Afterwards Ric told that as soon as he got close to verstappen his own front left tire died due to the dirty air as well.

But that happens to everyone, BTW Verstappen has the one guy after Barcelona winter testing that say that overtaking wouldn't be a problem, or no more a problem than the previous year. I think the guy should talk less, much much less. Let his driving do the talking for him, that's what he's good at. Every time he opens his mouth a foot goes in or crap comes out depending on the situation.

[The_table]

I thought that the rules require that a driver has at least 50% of his car within the starting grid box. That is what was implied by the sky commentators during the race so obviously Vettel knew this and pulled over to avoid the white lines that mark the boundary of his grid box because we all know that the painted lines have less grip than the tarmac, very clever of Sebastian.

Hang on, do the cars really start on the paint? (or is it just due to the wider cars now?) Maybe that part of the track was slightly drier?

[foxmulder_ms]

Ferrari is sooooo good when it comes to ruining Raikonnen's race. Even beyond that when Rai is in front of Vet, he always has issues.. Engine drops out for couple of the corners, DRS stops working.. Brilliant..

Also, from now on, I guess people can start wherever they want laterally on the grid! Left is wet, no problem, sneak towards right; right is oily, so,??, sneak towards left.. free for all. Ridiculous.

[Shrieker]

If we had this formula in previous years, we would not have seen the few on track battles between the Merc. teammates.

They would’ve arrived in the dirty air of the car in front and stayed there the whole race..

[f1316]

I actually think Ferrari have been comparatively strongER vs Mercedes in China in recent years, so don't expect it to be a bad track for them.

I also suspect we'll see what I consider to be the right difficulty of overtaking in China: it's going to be very hard and require a lot of skill and bravery but it'll be possible; in recent years I think it's been a slam dunk as soon as you're in drs zone on the long straight.

I doubt China is the best balance. It seems to be very easy to OT there almost as in Baku. Last year it was the record ever of more OT in a GP with 161

Precisely my point: it was too easy last + it's much harder this year than last = better balance.

A quote from Vettel basically echoing what I was expecting :

"It was difficult to get close to the car, like last race you felt the effect but here I think it’s a better track to overtake and yeah, it’s the way it should be in my opinion: you need to make it stick so it shouldn’t come for free. You shouldn’t just open the flap and sail past. It was good fun."

Overtakes were tricky this year and generally required a bit of skill - far fewer Drs 'fly bys'. That to me is close to the right balance.

It will mean there will be other races where it's too hard, since China's one of the easiest, but today I think it was as it should be.

[PlatinumZealot]

Ferrari is sooooo good when it comes to ruining Raikonnen's race. Even beyond that when Rai is in front of Vet, he always has issues.. Engine drops out for couple of the corners, DRS stops working.. Brilliant..

Also, from now on, I guess people can start wherever they want laterally on the grid! Left is wet, no problem, sneak towards right; right is oily, so,??, sneak towards left.. free for all. Ridiculous.

Raikkonen ruined Ferrari's race if u ask me. He was just too slow. Give the seat to someone else already. He is going to lose Ferrari the constructors.

[dans79]

A quote from Vettel basically echoing what I was expecting :

"It was difficult to get close to the car, like last race you felt the effect but here I think it’s a better track to overtake and yeah, it’s the way it should be in my opinion: you need to make it stick so it shouldn’t come for free. You shouldn’t just open the flap and sail past. It was good fun."

Overtakes were tricky this year and generally required a bit of skill - far fewer Drs 'fly bys'. That to me is close to the right balance.

It will mean there will be other races where it's too hard, since China's one of the easiest, but today I think it was as it should be.

If that's the case, then mercedes has the edge, because they have an advantage in qualifying!

[Shrieker]

Ferrari is sooooo good when it comes to ruining Raikonnen's race. Even beyond that when Rai is in front of Vet, he always has issues.. Engine drops out for couple of the corners, DRS stops working.. Brilliant..

Also, from now on, I guess people can start wherever they want laterally on the grid! Left is wet, no problem, sneak towards right; right is oily, so,??, sneak towards left.. free for all. Ridiculous.

Raikkonen ruined Ferrari's race if u ask me. He was just too slow. Give the seat to someone else already. He is going to lose Ferrari the constructors.

I'm +1 for not keeping Kimi (even said they should've hired Bianchi instead 3 years ago *sigh*), but to be perfectly honest they compromised his race by delaying his pit stop on the off chance that Lewis would run out of tires, pit and fall behind Kimi so he could be held up for Vettel. He was basically calling for a pit stop many, many laps in advance. If not for the intentional delay, he'd have finished ahead of the bulls.

[Fifty]

so ALO broke the car because couldn't let go as some people speculate , the driveshaft sheered off becuase of his tring not to be overtaking shenigans? McLaren failed the "curb test" (the real one) ...?

Uh oh. You triggered the Alonso nut swingers. How dare you not speak only that he is a god!

I think Mclaren is aware that he "broke" the car on purpose. Or rather reported the car broken at a common reoccurrence. It was being reported as an uncomfirmed "break" and the way it was reported led to a belief of skepticism.
I don't think Zak Brown will want to renew his contract next year if they stay with Honda and he will definitely not renew it if they go with a different title sponsor and engine.

I'm a Kimi fan....but he lost that race from the get go. I don't know if he is tired or burnt out, but he should give up his ride for someone who wants to go 10/10ths...

Pass of the race? My least favorite driver, grosjean, around the outside. Gracefully.