Top Speed

[davecooper]

I have just been reading an article in this months Motor Sport which talks of the rivalry in 1938 between Caracciola and Rosemeyer. These drivers would take their F1 cars onto the German Autobahn to set speed records. Rosemeyer was killed trying to beat the 258mph set by Caracciola earlier in the day. This got me wondering what a modern F1 car would be capable of were it stripped of its downforce and had suitable tyres fitted.
Anyone know?

[ChuckEdmondson]

Here is an approximation for F1 top speed:
The power delivered to the road must equal the drag force times the speed. Drag force is approximately =
.5xDrag coefficient x crosssectinal area x density of air x speed squared. I made some assumptions. Area =1.71 m^2, 800 Hp made it to the ground after losses. A drag coefficient of 0.25. If you get all the units correct this yields 289 mph. Damn Fast. This could easily be off by 10%

[Alic01]

I think the majority of the speed is dependent upon gears, modern F1 cars can reach 210 Mph plus in 1Km. At the end of the straight they will be pushing the limiter in 7th so as not to compromise acceleration during the rest of the lap.

A viewer on ITV asked if an F1 car could outperform a Cart car around the indy oval and Mark Blundell said no because they have a top speed of 210 - 215 and carts average around 240 but i think that is a very narrow view. Champ cars have over 2 miles to reach speed and then they barely slow down so there is no need to compromise gearing for slow corners.

As F1 cars have approx 100Hp more and weigh at least 150kg less they must be capable with suitable set up of outperforming a Cart. Obviously the engine is not designed for constant hammering at max revs but it is theoretically possible.

Based on that i would guess that the max speed depends entirely on how long youve got to get there. After all a McLarren F1 will get to 240 in 3 miles and thats only got 630 HP!!!

Sorry if this is a bit long!

[West]

You forgot about drag tho... F1 cars making a lot of downforce are most likely to make a lot more drag than a Champ car w/ less downforce. But we don't know which car actually makes less drag in the lowest downforce setting (at least I don't).

[sharkie17]

You forgot about drag tho... F1 cars making a lot of downforce are most likely to make a lot more drag than a Champ car w/ less downforce. But we don't know which car actually makes less drag in the lowest downforce setting (at least I don't).

you guys are forgetting that CART and F1 have different priorities...

if all things were equal (meaning that CART and F1 cars both have same aerodynamic package with same gear ratio), its obvious that F1 car would beat CART since more hp, less weight and smaller cross section...

F1 car definately creates more drag.. but thats the result of all the aero package.

[Guest]

but you could not run the F1 car on the oval as the banking adds possible cornering forces for wich the suspension is not calculated.So in every configuration the thing does not fit there.

[sharkie17]

but you could not run the F1 car on the oval as the banking adds possible cornering forces for wich the suspension is not calculated.So in every configuration the thing does not fit there.

well, if the purpose was to find the top speed on oval track, i would hope that the team preparing the F1 car would account for those cornering forces.

[pompelmo]

I think this year a F1 car will exced 380 km/h barrier!!
In a few years time they could go over 400km/h (if FIA doesn't do nothing about it)

[Guest]

an F-1 engine couldn't sustain, I'd guess, more than 60s at full throttle... the 'wear' on the engine caused by running at full throttle is non-linear w.r.t. time.

[-shr3d-]

i think we kinda got off topic here cause dave was asking about what an F1 car could achieve in a straight line with the downforce taken off (or stripped back).. not sure what amount of downforce you could take off before the car became undriveable.....
but i think DC hit 360kmh at the old hockenheim back in 99 with the car still set up to get thru the tricky stadium bits so would be well up on that...

[sharkie17]

i think we kinda got off topic here cause dave was asking about what an F1 car could achieve in a straight line with the downforce taken off (or stripped back).. not sure what amount of downforce you could take off before the car became undriveable.....
but i think DC hit 360kmh at the old hockenheim back in 99 with the car still set up to get thru the tricky stadium bits so would be well up on that...

lol, dont you love it when topic goes waaay left field?

ive answered his q few posts back... but:

given same aero package, tires and gear ratio, F1 car would beat CART...

[Monstrobolaxa]

Humm...about a F1 car I remember 2 or 3 years ago reading that one engine reached the equivelent of 450 Km/h on the dyno, but the engineers weren't testing it with the resistance mecanisms turned on! So there wasn't any kind of aerodynamic drag simulation, so the engine was just screeming it's balls off! Well and it isn't hard to imagine (imagine removing the drag caused by the tires....it's a whole lot of drag)....in 2003 did Gene reach 376 km/h at Monza(or something close to this number)?

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Strip and F1 car of its ballast, wings, diffuser, winglets and other drag causing downforce aids, lengthen the gear ratio's enough and give it a clear straight road I rekon that it could reach 280MPH but that is only an estimate on my behalf.

Just think about it, F1 cars cause lots of drag, only because of the downforce elements, remove them and you have a very very efficient car with regards to aerodynamics. Along with that you have 900bhp (about 850 of which gets to the road) and only 440kg (thts what they believe the F2003-GA Ferrai weighed without ballast...wow!) and you have all the elements for an extemely fast piece of kit.

280-290MPH is a definate possibiliy it could be 300MPH at the very most, but you'd need some very long gear ratio's and a hell of a lot of empty road!

[Monstrobolaxa]

Don't forget the tires represent alot of the total drag a F1 car has.

[ReubenG]

Are you referring to the rolling resistance of the tyres or the contribution of the tyres to aerodynamic drag?