2017 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal, 9-11 June

[SameSame]

P2 is clean side of the grid here is it not? With such a dirty track this year that could make the run down to T1 interesting.

[giantfan10]

Every time I watched a session this weekend the Ferrari were either sideways or about to be sideways... loving the confidence of some of the fans here, I couldn't be so sure.

You missed pretty much all of the other cars being sideways and spinning too?...this is not 2016... Mercedes doesnt get pole and skip off 30 seconds ahead of the rest of the field.....
Whichever car is leading after lap 1 may not even win this race its that close... of course some of us watch qualifying and get completely carried away .
Red bull even has a chance to get into the mix in this race..... ill say it again. Qualy mode cant be run for any significant amount of time in the race.

[Just_a_fan]

Some drivers use the left side of the track going across the line, some use the right side, some down the middle. On balance I would say P2 is slightly cleaner.

[F1Krof]

So who's looking strong on long runs?

[ME4ME]

I think the long runs from free practise are pretty irrelevant at the moment. A slight difference in track temperature can have quite substantial effects on the performance of each car. Also a lot of drivers got stuck in trafic while attempting to do a long run.

[motobaleno]

Canada is a power track and MERC PU still, in my humble opinion, has an edge especially on qualy mode, so I'm quite happy with 2nd position. I just hope that VET can keep this position after first corners, then we will see what happens.

If Bottas is able to pass him then will be almost impossible to claw first position for the german.

I agree with you.
this year the quality of Ferrari chassis and aero somewhat masks the engine gap from mercedes that imho is remained unchanged since last year if not slightly increased

[godlameroso]

Windy day tomorrow, expected to come out of the west, or blowing east, so there will be a fair bit of crosswind as the long straight heads south. Might make things tricky at the wall of champions, and particularly around 8 9 10

Super soft is the better race tire, easy one stop, there's usually a high probability of a safety car around here and with the wind its chances may improve.

[giantfan10]

Heres the Red bull drivers take from autosport:
Mercedes are strong, I'm not convinced they can hold that in the race - I'm sure the power they have to turn down a bit and on tyres they don't seem as comfortable as last year.
"I don't think they'll have it easy against Ferrari, and I feel like we will be closer than we were on one lap."
Verstappen, who narrowly outqualified Ricciardo to take fifth on the grid, said there was no point dwelling on the engine deficit.
"In Q2 everything was very close, but in Q3 we know they can turn up their engines, and then it was quite a big gap," he said.

[Phil]

So yes, i still think the ferrari is the better car. In hamilton hands around this track it may well go faster than today's pole time.

I know you are of the belief the Ferrari has more peak power. I am not sure I agree (still), but interestingly AMuS reported in their qualifying analysis that "internal calculations seems to suggest that Ferrari PU has more peak power".

Direct quote:
"Die Mercedes verloren in den Kurve 7 und 8 die entscheidende Zeit auf den WM-Rivalen. Und erstaunlicherweise auch auf den Geraden. Im dritten Training machte Ferrari auf dem früheren Territorium der Silberpfeile ein Zehntel gut. Interne Berechnungen haben ergeben, dass der Ferrari-Motor in der Spitzenleistung inzwischen einen minimalen Vorteil hat."

Translated (best effort):
"[Speaking of FP] the Mercedes lost time in T7 and T8 relative to Ferrari. Surprisingly on the straights too. In FP3, the Ferrari was quicker on the straights by a tenth. Internal calculations/research are suggesting that the Ferrari PU has a slight advantage in peak performance."

The article also goes on to say that the tire problem is not solved. They changed the warm up procedure in Q2, only doing a single warm up lap. Hamilton hit the sweet spot, Bottas may have had trouble with his tires, quoting that the car was different in Q3. He probably would not have beat Hamilton (my thinking), but the difference between them should not be 8 tenths.

Anyway, race will be very interesting.

[dans79]

Translated (best effort):
"[Speaking of FP] the Mercedes lost time in T7 and T8 relative to Ferrari. Surprisingly on the straights too. In FP3, the Ferrari was quicker on the straights by a tenth. Internal calculations/research are suggesting that the Ferrari PU has a slight advantage in peak performance."

Personally, I think this analysis is completely wrong. It looks like Merc decided to run more DF partway through practice, as was mentioned earlier. It's exactly what RBR did when they lead the field, trade top speed for better cornering via increased DF.

If Lewis makes it out of turn 2 with the lead tomorrow, Vettel with find it very difficult to get past. Lewis will be able to pull a gap in Sectors 1 & 2, while Vettel has to eat dirty air, and abuse his tires. Vettel will claw it back in sector 3, but even with DRS I don't think it will be enough.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

P2 is clean side of the grid here is it not? With such a dirty track this year that could make the run down to T1 interesting.

For most part of the weekend, cars go through the P1 slot (slightly right of it too) on almost all their Free Practice laps. Only in qualifying, they go where the P2 slot is situated, to complete their quali lap, while they still start their quali laps going over P1 slot. So, from a grip perspective, more rubber is laid where P1 slot is and much lesser rubber on P2.

[Hammerfist]

So yes, i still think the ferrari is the better car. In hamilton hands around this track it may well go faster than today's pole time.

I know you are of the belief the Ferrari has more peak power. I am not sure I agree (still), but interestingly AMuS reported in their qualifying analysis that "internal calculations seems to suggest that Ferrari PU has more peak power".

Direct quote:
"Die Mercedes verloren in den Kurve 7 und 8 die entscheidende Zeit auf den WM-Rivalen. Und erstaunlicherweise auch auf den Geraden. Im dritten Training machte Ferrari auf dem früheren Territorium der Silberpfeile ein Zehntel gut. Interne Berechnungen haben ergeben, dass der Ferrari-Motor in der Spitzenleistung inzwischen einen minimalen Vorteil hat."

Translated (best effort):
"[Speaking of FP] the Mercedes lost time in T7 and T8 relative to Ferrari. Surprisingly on the straights too. In FP3, the Ferrari was quicker on the straights by a tenth. Internal calculations/research are suggesting that the Ferrari PU has a slight advantage in peak performance."

The article also goes on to say that the tire problem is not solved. They changed the warm up procedure in Q2, only doing a single warm up lap. Hamilton hit the sweet spot, Bottas may have had trouble with his tires, quoting that the car was different in Q3. He probably would not have beat Hamilton (my thinking), but the difference between them should not be 8 tenths.

Anyway, race will be very interesting.

I think the Mercedes has more power. I said before the race that they would get a 1-2 here. In actuality they were poised to lock out the front row but Bottas blew his final lap. On the initial laps of Q3 Hamilton and Bottas were fastest, with about 3 tenths separating the two. I don' t think the 8 tenths are representative at all. Bottas just simply blew his final lap, while Lewis improved.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Toto continues to mention that, they haven't found the "Holy grail" of their tyre issues and are just improving their understanding of using the Ultra Soft tyres AND that Bottas was so far away from Lewis confirms that they still have work to do to understand the tyres. The team decided not to go for 2 warm up laps and instead just go with one, which helped them get good times.

If today's pole is any evidence, I can't imagine what happens when Mercedes finds their "Holy grail" and fixes it to bring the tyres to their best operating window. That car has great deal of performance to be unlocked.

[Phil]

Translated (best effort):
"[Speaking of FP] the Mercedes lost time in T7 and T8 relative to Ferrari. Surprisingly on the straights too. In FP3, the Ferrari was quicker on the straights by a tenth. Internal calculations/research are suggesting that the Ferrari PU has a slight advantage in peak performance."

Personally, I think this analysis is completely wrong. It looks like Merc decided to run more DF partway through practice, as was mentioned earlier. It's exactly what RBR did when they lead the field, trade top speed for better cornering via increased DF.

If Lewis makes it out of turn 2 with the lead tomorrow, Vettel with find it very difficult to get past. Lewis will be able to pull a gap in Sectors 1 & 2, while Vettel has to eat dirty air, and abuse his tires. Vettel will claw it back in sector 3, but even with DRS I don't think it will be enough.

I'm inclined to agree, but they were referring to "internal calculations" which i suppose take the various sectors and downforce levels into account. Its not mentioned whos calculations they are. Perhaps some insider or their own?

AMuS has some good info and is usually quite competent, so i thought i post it. As you, i am skeptical as i do think Mercedes has the best PU... but that is just "my feeling" without numbers etc.

[justmoi]

Both of Sebastians fastest laps he was actually making up time in S3, which has the longest straight of the circuit (full power) and the start finish straights if I'm not mistaken. Doesn't really scream to me that Ferrari are that much down on power to Mercedes